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-   -   Modifying the PK Ki 5 315 to be more like PD 2012? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=439986)

GrandSlam45 09-13-2012 11:40 AM

Modifying the PK Ki 5 315 to be more like PD 2012?
 
I just demo'd the ProKennex Ionic Ki 5 315, and wow, what a comfy racquet! I've been playing with a Pure Drive 2012 the last couple of months, but suffering tennis elbow problems because of the frame stiffness.

The Ki 5 315 is almost a perfect replacement, but I find it lacks the power and pop of the PD 2012. However, the Ki 5 315 demo shipped with a crappy set of strings and I have no idea what tension, so perhaps that's part of the problem?

I'm wondering... if I add some lead tape and use low string tension on the Ki 5 315, would that give me the power I desire?

I've never used lead tape before... do I add it the 3 and 9 positions?

ollinger 09-13-2012 12:11 PM

If the Prokennex Q5 racquets due out shortly are indeed stiffer (RA about 67 for the two weights), they would more closely approximate the Bab in terms of pop yet should still be fairly comfortable.

jwbarrientos 09-13-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSlam45 (Post 6897628)
I just demo'd the ProKennex Ionic Ki 5 315, and wow, what a comfy racquet! I've been playing with a Pure Drive 2012 the last couple of months, but suffering tennis elbow problems because of the frame stiffness.

The Ki 5 315 is almost a perfect replacement, but I find it lacks the power and pop of the PD 2012. However, the Ki 5 315 demo shipped with a crappy set of strings and I have no idea what tension, so perhaps that's part of the problem?

I'm wondering... if I add some lead tape and use low string tension on the Ki 5 315, would that give me the power I desire?

I've never used lead tape before... do I add it the 3 and 9 positions?

What I did to compensate that was going lower and lower with string's tension, around 40 was the lowest, now back to 45 (2 Ki5s) and 50 (1 Ki5s), you know because of those days.

Going slower creates another issue, let's say some UFOs flying around, but after 3 weeks I found the proper balance.

GrandSlam45 09-13-2012 01:56 PM

Wow, 45 lbs seems pretty loose!

I don't mind the low stiffness of the Ki 5 315, it just needs more power. I'm hoping maybe some lead and good strings will solve the problem.

I also haven't tried the Donnay Formula 100 yet... that's next on the demo agenda. But so far the Ki 5 315 is looking pretty good.

Ramon 09-13-2012 02:02 PM

I play with the Ki 5x, which is just a Ki 5 with a longer handle, and I've demoed the Ki 5. I used to play with lead at 3 and 9 o'clock, and it worked fine, but then I tried it at 12 o'clock and the difference was dramatic. It plays much more like a Pure Drive that way. The sweet spot is higher and I seem to get more bite on the ball. It lets me hook that cross court topspin forehand the way I did with my APDGT.

Try it first with about 6 grams at 12 o'clock. Don't add any lead to 3 and 9 until you've tried it at 12, and then tweak it if you like.

KenC 09-14-2012 12:48 AM

From another perspective, maybe you don't really want the PK to play like a Pure Drive. Pop isn't everything. Control is just as important as pop, as is arm comfort.

<begin rant> The Pure Drive is a missile launcher, but often you don't want a missile launcher. Unless your missile is very well placed, it just serves as good pace for the opponent to send back a missile. Hitting hard is not as great as it seems when your opponent can handle hard shots and sometimes use them to punish you. Now I am a low level 5.0 playing against higher level players in the 5.0 and above tournaments, I see that my power shots aren't that effective and had to stop driving shots with good pace right into my opponents preferred strike zone. Now I have to first move them around with deep shots that bounce close the shoulder or close to the knee so that my opponents can't easily attack my shots. In this case precise placement with a precise trajectory are more important than outright power. There lies the fault with the Pure Drive. That level of precision is really difficult to obtain with the PD.

That brings up another point. A lot of pop actually comes from your opponent's ball. If you are playing against 3.0 players who have little or no pace, you will need a racquet that has considerable pop to generate pace. But when you play against some 5.5 monster whose typical rally shots have excellent pace, you don't need a missile launcher to return with good pace. My severely underpowered PSLGTs generate a seriously heavy ball when I have good pace to work with.

So, pop is just a small part of the overall game. Yes, you may need it if you want to play at the 3.0-4.0 level and want to generate pace, but beyond that you start to see how important being able to control everything else really is. </end rant>

Your question should actually be inverted. How can we modify the PDGT to play more like the PK Ki5 315? Now that's a real challenge.

GrandSlam45 09-14-2012 11:35 AM

Ramon: thanks for the tip! I will try adding some lead to the 12 o'clock position and see if that works for me.

KenC: Your rant is duly noted. In my case, power and pop is more of a personal perference. I guess I've always enjoyed striking fear into my opponents with a big forehand or serve, letting them know who's boss. Plus, at the 4.0 level, there's a lot of guys who can't handle pace, so it can be an effective weapon.

However, I played with the PK Ki5 again last night and kicked someone's ***, not with power and pace, but with consistency and placement. On the flip side, I too have had my *** kicked numerous times by guys using this same method.

So your point is well taken. However, with the Ki5 I would still like to be able to hit big winners occasionally.

Most importantly though is that the Ki5 is going to save my arm, whereas the PD 2012 was going to ruin it.

KenC 09-14-2012 12:08 PM

Hey Grandslam, today I hit with the Ki5 for two hours and toward the end I was interested in seeing how much power I could generate while still keeping the ball in. My opponent was amazed at just how hard I cracked a few DTL shots with a good amount of topspin so that it dived down right before the line. That racquet is capable of generating a serious amount of pace and a seriously heavy ball. Coming from the PSLGT, the Ki5 is a rocket launcher to me.

If you want a lot of power out of the Ki5, just string it with a good multi like Tecnifibre NRG2 at perhaps 54lbs, maybe even 52 lbs. If you have serious arm problems I would string it up with VS Touch at 54lbs or less. Natty gut at lower tension in a 100in. frame will definitely give you a big power boost without having to add lead to the hoop.

yemenmocha 09-14-2012 01:39 PM

I think you guys are going a bit far with how much power it has. If anything I think it helps more with spin production, in my experience. Maybe it's what we're comparing it to?

Anyway, it's low on weight and I've found significant improvements in controllable power with extra weight.

Ramon 09-14-2012 03:15 PM

As far as strings go, I tried playtesting several multifilaments. I have a few favorites that I like, but ultimately, I settled on natural gut. Right now I have my Ki 5x strung with Klip Legend 16 at 60 lbs. It has more spin, feel, and controlled power than any multi, and surprisingly, the durability justifies its cost. The most durable multis last me about 10-12 hours before they either break or lose playability. With Klip Legend I've logged in over 24 hours of play so far, and it still plays like a fresh set. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much longer to go, but it already justified the price. I'm going to try Pacific Classic next and compare them.

yemenmocha 09-14-2012 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramon (Post 6899985)
As far as strings go, I tried playtesting several multifilaments. I have a few favorites that I like, but ultimately, I settled on natural gut. Right now I have my Ki 5x strung with Klip Legend 16 at 60 lbs. It has more spin, feel, and controlled power than any multi, and surprisingly, the durability justifies its cost. The most durable multis last me about 10-12 hours before they either break or lose playability. With Klip Legend I've logged in over 24 hours of play so far, and it still plays like a fresh set. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much longer to go, but it already justified the price. I'm going to try Pacific Classic next and compare them.

How much tension loss do you have in 24+ hours of playtime with those strings?

Ramon 09-14-2012 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yemenmocha (Post 6900024)
How much tension loss do you have in 24+ hours of playtime with those strings?

I have about an 18% total tension loss. Most of it occurred in the first 4 hours of play, and it was fairly level after that. This was during the hot, humid Florida summer, and I think the weather had something to do with it. Honestly, if I didn't measure the tension with RacquetTune, I would have no idea of the tension loss. The strings move less than an average multi, and they still bite into the ball like fresh gut.

jwbarrientos 09-15-2012 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramon (Post 6897931)
I play with the Ki 5x, which is just a Ki 5 with a longer handle, and I've demoed the Ki 5. I used to play with lead at 3 and 9 o'clock, and it worked fine, but then I tried it at 12 o'clock and the difference was dramatic. It plays much more like a Pure Drive that way. The sweet spot is higher and I seem to get more bite on the ball. It lets me hook that cross court topspin forehand the way I did with my APDGT.

Try it first with about 6 grams at 12 o'clock. Don't add any lead to 3 and 9 until you've tried it at 12, and then tweak it if you like.

How much are you adding?

Ramon 09-15-2012 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwbarrientos (Post 6900784)
How much are you adding?

6 grams at the 12 o'clock with nothing else is the configuration which brought out a noticeable difference towards a tweener racquet. I'm still trying to tweak it at this point. For some reason, that configuration was great for hard driving topspin and sharp angled topspin, but the tradeoff came with less power on slices and volleys. When I go with 2-6-2 (at 3, 12, 9 o'clock), it starts to feel too heavy. When I go with 2-4-2 it's more like the stock version with added stability and some benefit to topspin shots. I also tried putting 3 grams in the butt cap with 2-4-2, but it felt like it removed the original benefit of weight at the top. I'm going to keep trying.

I've been keeping a log on a spreadsheet for every configuration, along with measurements and swingweight calculations. Yes, I'm way too compulsive about it! :)

jwbarrientos 09-15-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramon (Post 6900979)
6 grams at the 12 o'clock with nothing else is the configuration which brought out a noticeable difference towards a tweener racquet. I'm still trying to tweak it at this point. For some reason, that configuration was great for hard driving topspin and sharp angled topspin, but the tradeoff came with less power on slices and volleys. When I go with 2-6-2 (at 3, 12, 9 o'clock), it starts to feel too heavy. When I go with 2-4-2 it's more like the stock version with added stability and some benefit to topspin shots. I also tried putting 3 grams in the butt cap with 2-4-2, but it felt like it removed the original benefit of weight at the top. I'm going to keep trying.

I've been keeping a log on a spreadsheet for every configuration, along with measurements and swingweight calculations. Yes, I'm way too compulsive about it! :)

Thanks Ramón, :roll: I assume you'll share with us some part of that spreadsheet :mrgreen:

I'm a little shy :oops: and I'll go with 1,2,1 and later 2,4,2 probably with 0,4,0 In a week or so I'll let you know my perception

levy1 09-15-2012 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandSlam45 (Post 6897628)
I just demo'd the ProKennex Ionic Ki 5 315, and wow, what a comfy racquet! I've been playing with a Pure Drive 2012 the last couple of months, but suffering tennis elbow problems because of the frame stiffness.

The Ki 5 315 is almost a perfect replacement, but I find it lacks the power and pop of the PD 2012. However, the Ki 5 315 demo shipped with a crappy set of strings and I have no idea what tension, so perhaps that's part of the problem?

I'm wondering... if I add some lead tape and use low string tension on the Ki 5 315, would that give me the power I desire?

I've never used lead tape before... do I add it the 3 and 9 positions?

If TW strung it it is 2 lbs over the middle for mono and 2 lbs under the middle for poly. First look up the specs and add lead to the PD 2012 up to match the KI. See how you like it and then play with tension and strings. How do you know the strings are crappy?

Ramon 09-15-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levy1 (Post 6901862)
If TW strung it it is 2 lbs over the middle for mono and 2 lbs under the middle for poly. First look up the specs and add lead to the KI to match the PD 2012. See how you like it and then play with tension and strings. How do you know the strings are crappy?

That's really not possible. The PD weighs 11.1 oz and is 4 pts HL. The Ki 5 weighs 11.8 oz and is 7 HL. The closest thing you can do is add lead at 12 o'clock because that will alter the balance with the least amount of weight.

levy1 09-15-2012 09:48 PM

It is absolutely possible. 11.1 is 314 grams and 11.8 is 334 grams which means you can add a whopping 20 grams to play with modifying the PD. You add weight to the head and offset the weight by adding lead in the but cap. In this case more weight in the but cap to make it more HL. Mail the racket to me and I will fix it!

Ramon 09-16-2012 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by levy1 (Post 6901947)
It is absolutely possible. 11.1 is 314 grams and 11.8 is 334 grams which means you can add a whopping 20 grams to play with modifying the PD. You add weight to the head and offset the weight by adding lead in the but cap. In this case more weight in the but cap to make it more HL. Mail the racket to me and I will fix it!

He's trying to modify the Ki 5 to play more like the PD, not the other way around.

levy1 09-16-2012 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramon (Post 6902262)
He's trying to modify the Ki 5 to play more like the PD, not the other way around.

What I am saying is he should modify the PD to the KI specs and then see how he likes the PD. He may not want to change after the mod.


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