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Playtennis 09-19-2012 03:48 PM

Combo league frustration
 
So i played 7.5 combo today. Im a 4.0 and my partner was a 3.5. We played against two 3.5s and got double bagled. I was demoralized. I have to be honest i played fair- not terrible but ive played much better- but my partner could not hit a single volley. She hated to volley and was not good. I was essentially playing canadian doubles all night becue i was at net- she wS back and they picked on her. I feel like there is such a disparity in skill aet between doubles at 3.5 v 4.0 level it makes combo not fun! Anyone have similar experiences? Thank goodness doesnt affect rating! Thanks.

LeeD 09-19-2012 03:52 PM

Well, a good doubles team can beat two top level singles players playing together every time.
Same with your team. You have one person who doesn't want to play doubles.

Mike Y 09-19-2012 03:59 PM

Welcome to Combo, lol.

If you are the higher rated player, you have to play aggressively, you can't just let the ball go to your partner. Why are they so easily passing you at the net? You have to get to that cross court shot. If they are lobbing you, you have to back up and take the ball out of the air. But yeah, it is frustrating.

LeeD 09-19-2012 04:05 PM

More often than not, two decent lower level players PLAYING TOGETHER, can beat a much higher rated player coupled with a peer of the lower level players. Matchups, compatibility, communication, and common tactics that allow a TEAM to work like clockwork, while a disjointed team (yours), is still finding the middle ground.

aurelius 09-19-2012 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playtennis (Post 6909002)
I feel like there is such a disparity in skill aet between doubles at 3.5 v 4.0 level it makes combo not fun!

Doesn't sound like much of a disparity in skill set between 3.5 and 4.0 if you were just beat by two 3.5s....unless you mean in the opposite direction? :-?

Perhaps, you're not quite as strong a 4.0 as you previously thought (of course, bring out the excuses...my crappy 3.5 partner, I wasn't feeling well, etc.). You played against two 3.5s with a 3.5 partner and you couldn't pull it out. Even if those mean 3.5s picked on your 3.5, you should have been able to pick on either one of the opponents.

Playtennis 09-19-2012 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6909014)
More often than not, two decent lower level players PLAYING TOGETHER, can beat a much higher rated player coupled with a peer of the lower level players. Matchups, compatibility, communication, and common tactics that allow a TEAM to work like clockwork, while a disjointed team (yours), is still finding the middle ground.

Agree- we were not a team. The other team played together often and we never have. I was covering most of the volleys but couldnt volley for 2 people. And when they couldnt get through me they lobbed- she stayed back and too many UE. Just hated it. Was frustrating and not sure its worth the time, money and effort. Dissapointing but i guess if im gonna play i either need a better partner or be much more aggressive.

LeeD 09-19-2012 04:15 PM

Another partner is the quick cure, but maybe your partner can be convinced she can learn to volley, and actually take net position without crawling backwards.
Can she volley? Does she need glasses? Is it fear of getting hit or fear of losing the point with a weak volley. It might be up to you to find the solution.

UCSF2012 09-19-2012 05:39 PM

Ah yes...the incompetant tennis partner. I know this well.

Once, I was paired with a grandmother. The other team totally sucked, but I had the grandmother. Eventually, I told her to cover the allies. I'd play expanded singles (I was 24 and can still run like mad.) On my serves, I went into ace mode. ...my own service game was the only game we'd win. We went down 2-6, 3-6 or something like that.

UCSF2012 09-19-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playtennis (Post 6909002)
So i played 7.5 combo today. Im a 4.0 and my partner was a 3.5. We played against two 3.5s and got double bagled. I was demoralized. I have to be honest i played fair- not terrible but ive played much better- but my partner could not hit a single volley. She hated to volley and was not good. I was essentially playing canadian doubles all night becue i was at net- she wS back and they picked on her. I feel like there is such a disparity in skill aet between doubles at 3.5 v 4.0 level it makes combo not fun! Anyone have similar experiences? Thank goodness doesnt affect rating! Thanks.

You have to play back if you want a fighting chance. You cover more court, and when you get a chance, take a ball that was "hers" and you attack them and put them in defense.

You'll still probably lose, but not 0-6, 0-6.

LeeD 09-19-2012 05:51 PM

I played with a granny just two years ago. Her kids were 25 and 27, both hulking ex football players.
She shut down and dominated the one 5.0 on the court, easily beating everyone in individual points. Of course, she was an ex No.1 for UCBerkeley and went on to play a couple years on the pro tour.
All that with a 70 mph serve and mostly chipped groundstrokes....and the best lobs you've ever seen...

beernutz 09-19-2012 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Y (Post 6909010)
Welcome to Combo, lol.

If you are the higher rated player, you have to play aggressively, you can't just let the ball go to your partner. Why are they so easily passing you at the net? You have to get to that cross court shot. If they are lobbing you, you have to back up and take the ball out of the air. But yeah, it is frustrating.

This!! That was a hard lesson for me to learn but since getting it through my thick head that when I'm the higher rated combo player it is primarily my responsibility to finish points, my results have been much better.

jaybear1909 09-19-2012 06:50 PM

Yep, had this same experience in an Alta match. Right before the match she told me she hated the net, and right away I was thinking 'this isn't going to be good'. It wasn't. I wasn't used to that strategy and it took me out of my comfort zone by a fair margin.

We didn't lose quite as bad (sorry :P) but we did lose in straights. That formation is just too easy to pick on the weaker player. At least had she stood at net she would have been an obstacle and I would have been able to force some points.

Lesson learned.

OrangePower 09-19-2012 07:37 PM

It's not uncommon for a 4.0 + 3.5 to lose to a pair of 3.5s.

But a 0 & 0 beat down? That's rare even when all 4 players at level.

My guess is either the 3.5 is actually a 3.0, or the 4.0 is actually a 3.5, or both.

NTRPolice 09-20-2012 12:04 AM

In doubles, mixed especially, you never want someone to be below the minimum standard for their personal level or the combo level. Even at 3.0, its quite hard for "the good player" to carry someone who is "below average".

A good 3.0 team can easily exploit the weaker player, which is usually the girl. It's hilarious when you see the guy practically force the girl out of the point by trying to take up 80% of the court. This gets exponentially worse the higher level you play, because accuracy, consistency/power are more repeatable and any vulnerability is easily exploited.

The way our 7.0 line is setup is I play with a 4.0 girl who is very steady. She's great at the net puts away frequently and hardly makes any errors. This is my idea of the ideal woman for mixed. She plays net, she puts away, she doesnt make too many errors. I've played with other 3.5-4.5 women who dont play like that and it makes a huge difference especially in mixed.

A 4.5 womans baseline game is great for 4.5 women, but in mixed, its hard to compare to even (some top tier) 3.5 guys. A woman is much more valuable at net in mixed than on the baseline and its not realistic to think that a guy can simply "cover" for her and force her off the court. I think its hilarious when a guy thinks hes just going to take over 80% of the court and the poor girl is standing in the corner.

gmatheis 09-20-2012 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 6909306)
It's not uncommon for a 4.0 + 3.5 to lose to a pair of 3.5s.

But a 0 & 0 beat down? That's rare even when all 4 players at level.

My guess is either the 3.5 is actually a 3.0, or the 4.0 is actually a 3.5, or both.

Actually this seems rather uncommon to me unless the team of 3.5s are both better players than the 3.5 teamed with the 4.0. Think about it if all the 3.5s are roughly equal the game should be fairly close except when the 4.0 gets involved in points at which point the 4.0's team should come out ahead.

Now a 4.5 and a 3.0 losing to a team of 3.5's would not surprise me as you simply avoid the 4.5 all day and pick on the 3.0

Maui19 09-20-2012 04:37 AM

IMO there can be a huge variation in skill level within each particular rating level. I think sometimes we talk about each person at a particular rating level as having roughly the same skill levels and that's just not the case.

I think doubles and singles are very very different games. In dubs, strategy can beat skill, and players can use strategy and positioning to hide weaknesses. That doesn't work at singles.

But the bottom line is that if you can't volley, you can't play doubles (unless you have superhuman groundies).

OrangePower 09-20-2012 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis (Post 6909655)
Actually this seems rather uncommon to me unless the team of 3.5s are both better players than the 3.5 teamed with the 4.0. Think about it if all the 3.5s are roughly equal the game should be fairly close except when the 4.0 gets involved in points at which point the 4.0's team should come out ahead.

Just going by my personal experience with my combo teams (I captain 8.5 and 9.5). Sometimes at practices we don't have matching numbers at both levels and end up with two 4.0s vs 4.0+4.5, or two 4.5s vs 4.5+5.0 in practice sets. And usually these are still competitive, with the lower rated pair sometimes (not often, but sometimes) winning.

It comes down to matchups, chemistry, and who can hold their serve, although obviously the pair with the higher rated player have an edge in ability.

JoelDali 09-20-2012 10:48 AM

Mixed doubles is destroying the game. It must be eradicated. Just. Stop. Now.

sureshs 09-20-2012 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6909004)
Well, a good doubles team can beat two top level singles players playing together every time.
Same with your team. You have one person who doesn't want to play doubles.

I think Stan and Rog have beaten the Bryans if I am not mistaken.

sureshs 09-20-2012 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCSF2012 (Post 6909130)
Ah yes...the incompetant tennis partner. I know this well.

Once, I was paired with a grandmother. The other team totally sucked, but I had the grandmother. Eventually, I told her to cover the allies. I'd play expanded singles (I was 24 and can still run like mad.) On my serves, I went into ace mode. ...my own service game was the only game we'd win. We went down 2-6, 3-6 or something like that.

So you are 24 and call a grandmother incompetent? What about partnering with people your age?


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