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-   -   Should you work on dealing with disruption/gamesmanship (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=440768)

Clive Walker 09-21-2012 02:12 AM

Should you work on dealing with disruption/gamesmanship
 
When I was a kid playing in the park with my Dad, he always made me serve into the sun (refusing to change ends), he always taught me to deal with gamesmanship, (stopping me in the middle of a 2nd serve at 30-40 to waft an imaginary wasp as an example), or to remind me that I had not lost my serve in a while at a change of ends.

He did this (unbeknownst to me at the time) as a method of teaching me to deal with the kind of thing that goes on in competitive sport

Net result- I deal with that kind of thing now far better than most of my peers. I always serve into the sun. I never worry about gamesmanship and I let any comment drift over me without a care.

There's a hell of a lot I'd like to improve in my game, but this? I've got sorted.

Just wondering if anyone else actively works on this side of the game?

Cindysphinx 09-21-2012 04:42 AM

I do.

Whenever I play a practice match, I challenge myself in some ways to make it uncomfortable.

For instance, i will serve with the wind at my back or the sun in my face.

I choose to serve first, because I am less warmed up. I will decline courtesy offers of a first serve (ball rolling on court). I will play FBI so that I have to hold without my best serves.

When I have challenging match conditions, I feel better equipped to handle them because I have faced them before.

IA-SteveB 09-21-2012 07:19 AM

I enjoy playing in less than optimal conditions with sun, wind, heat etc. Like Cindy, I will always choose whatever presents the best challenge for me. I don't like to play indoors that much.

tennis tom 09-21-2012 07:52 AM

Hi Clive,

Yup, your father was a very wise tennis man and he's made you into one too. I always request to serve into the sun for rec matches. When the match becomes about gamesmanship, it is no longer tennis but about something else--maybe four old farts trying to impress each other. I'm competitive at that too and work at beating them at that low level also--the goal being to get them to pack up their bag, walk-off and never having to see their wretched carcass again.

Game on!

sureshs 09-21-2012 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6911634)
I choose to serve first, because I am less warmed up.

I will play FBI so that I have to hold without my best serves.

Same here for first. I like to challenge myself to serve cold.

Second: not sure. We usually do FBI in social doubles, but that actually does NOT challenge you, right?

NTRPolice 09-21-2012 08:31 AM

I never resort to gamesmanship, but I guess that depends on your definition. I really hate "gamesmanship" because I think its like the lamest of the lame tactics a person can use to win.

When someone tries to fluster me like that I usually respond with beaning them or extending zero courtesy to them. I know that makes me sound really bad, but I assure you, these "gamesmen" know what they're doing and they deserve it. It's part of their game to get into my head and beaning them is a great way to make them stop and boost confidence at the same time. I know, I know, I sound like an ***, but im really not like that.

Here are some notable examples:

1) Their female player constantly yelling "WATCHOUT! WATCHOUT!" as a short overhead comes over to our side. Legally, I can call a hindrance, but that just makes them think they got into my head.

Solution: Slam over head right at them and say "Sorry, I kinda got distracted when you yelled." and you'll see that they learn the first time, every time.


2) Guy is standing at the net with his racket over the net while his partner serves. My partner asks him not to do that, he said "it's not illegal."

Solution: Blast the ball straight at him. He will back up.


3) Same guy from #2 pops up early at the net and flails his arms in the air as my partner is hitting the second serve.

Solution: Blast the ball straight at him, as low as you can, as hard as you can. Do not hit it long. Keep that ball low since hes standing upright and has his arms in the air and is not in any normal "ready" position.


"Sorry. I was trying to hit line. That's a good serve. It's got a lot of spin on it. I almost whiffed."


4) Guy on opposing team calls out "FAULT! SECOND SERVE." while you're serving after your first serve goes out, presumably to pressure you.

Solution: While his partner receives and he is at net, serve as hard as you can, as fast as you can right at him on a second serve after he does that. Whether you hit him or not, say "Sorry, I was kinda nervous and it was a bad toss but I swung hard anyway."



I believe in court justice. I dont believe in cheating. I dont believe in calling a ref unless its regarding to bad line calls.

leroy_sunset 09-21-2012 09:33 AM

court justice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6911989)
I believe in court justice. I dont believe in cheating. I dont believe in calling a ref unless its regarding to bad line calls.

Court justice. The best kind of justice.


OrangePower 09-21-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6911945)
Same here for first. I like to challenge myself to serve cold.

Second: not sure. We usually do FBI in social doubles, but that actually does NOT challenge you, right?

Really what you are challenging by deciding to serve cold is the health of your shoulder :shock:

OrangePower 09-21-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6911989)
I never resort to gamesmanship, but I guess that depends on your definition. I really hate "gamesmanship" because I think its like the lamest of the lame tactics a person can use to win.

I agree but I don't think all your examples are necessarily gamesmanship.

Definitely #3 and #4 are. They are being done for no reason other than to throw you off.

#1 could be legit. Baseline opponent could be legitimately trying to warn net opponent to keep him/her from getting creamed.

#2 is bad tennis positioning, but not gamesmanship IMO. If anything it makes it very easy to lob the net person. And also if the net player actually makes contact with the ball on your side of the net it's your point.

NTRPolice 09-21-2012 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 6912250)
#1 could be legit. Baseline opponent could be legitimately trying to warn net opponent to keep him/her from getting creamed.

#2 is bad tennis positioning, but not gamesmanship IMO. If anything it makes it very easy to lob the net person. And also if the net player actually makes contact with the ball on your side of the net it's your point.

Well, #1 is against the rules and is a hindrance. You cannot yell like that as the ball is going over to your opponents side of the court. You can yell all you want while the ball is coming over to your side. You cant make noises if your opponent can play the ball, while the ball is traveling to their side of the court.

Saying "Watch out! Watch out!" might as well be saying "Let it go!", "Mine!" or, "Out!" while your opponent is backing up to hit an overhead.

#2 is bad positioning, but you also have to consider that its very distracting when hes dangling his racket over the net. He was also asked nicely to stop doing that to which he replied "its not illegal".

Suffice to say, he quit all those shitnanigans after I tagged him twice with forehands and one accidental time with a backhand serve return. The backhand he ran into trying to poach. The forehands were obviously nonverbal communication, the backhand was just bonus entertainment.

sureshs 09-21-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 6912246)
Really what you are challenging by deciding to serve cold is the health of your shoulder :shock:

Don't worry - we are not talking about 140 mph serves here for the opening point :-)


I serve those later in the match.

LeeD 09-21-2012 11:53 AM

Unlike some of the posters here, Suresh knows he can start at 50% and gradually dial up the effort as he warms up. I agree, no need to start at 100% unless you're playing for dollars.

Mongolmike 09-21-2012 11:55 AM

I dunno... I laugh out loud at people trying to game me... tight game, I miss my first serve, opponent says something like "Easy now, you haven't double faulted all day." I laugh out loud and usually say something like "double fault this.." as I give them my best kick serve.

If its a matter of them shrinking the court... that's different. Then I'll start playing mean... that isn't gamesmanship, its cheating.


For court conditions, I have a solid service game, so to be serving into the sun is not helpful for the team. It is what it is and I can adjust some by moving back or forth along the line and changing my serve set-up angle... but I play that if the sun is a factor, the weaker serve (doubles obviously) should take the sun. Same as if you had a lefty partner... why should a righty serve into the sun if the lefty on the team doesn't have a sun problem serving on that side?

The game is/should be dynamic enough with variable conditions and different opponents that I don't see the benefit of volunteering difficulties on yourself.

Do you get credit from your opponent- "Hey, nice game. Tough loss on your part, but the way you kept your composure serving into the sun... playing with your off-hand.... keeping one hand tied behind your back... was spectacular!"

Or if you are playing a doubles team with one really good server and the other is average or weaker... if the better server is getting ready to serve, looks into the sun, and is obviously going to have trouble... do you suggest they let the weaker server serve into the sun to give your team more of a challenge with the good server not having the sun issue, or do you feel slightly more optimistic about your chances of breaking him since you know he can't serve 100%?

OrangePower 09-21-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6912354)
Unlike some of the posters here, Suresh knows he can start at 50% and gradually dial up the effort as he warms up. I agree, no need to start at 100% unless you're playing for dollars.

Or you could just warm up first. But if time is money and you can't afford the extra 15 mins to warm up first, then yeah, better take it easy to start.

Cindysphinx 09-21-2012 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6912290)
Don't worry - we are not talking about 140 mph serves here for the opening point :-)


I serve those later in the match.

Ahahaahahaha! :)

The point is to be able to win points off of a warm-up serve. If you can do that in practice, you know you win points even when you're not serving your best. Builds confidence.

KoaUka 09-21-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leroy_sunset (Post 6912112)
Court justice. The best kind of justice.

Yeah, but intentionally trying to "bean" someone is bad form.

dcdoorknob 09-21-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6911989)
Solution: Slam over head right at them

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6911989)
Solution: Blast the ball straight at him. He will back up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6911989)
Solution: Blast the ball straight at him

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6911989)
Solution: ... serve as hard as you can, as fast as you can right at him

Your problem solving techniques seem to lack subtlety. :shock::lol:

NTRPolice 09-21-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoaUka (Post 6912770)
Yeah, but intentionally trying to "bean" someone is bad form.

Beaning people happens even by accident. There is never an "accidental" incident of gamesmanship. I believe gamesmanship is the "worst form" of all. It has nothing to do with the game. At best its a mental assault on your opponent, at worst it just serves as an irritant.

Amongst friends we harass each other all the time. In league theres no place for that. If you wanna bean people, fine, thats part of the game whether its intentional, accidental, or unintentional. Gamesmanship is not part of the game at all.

NLBwell 09-21-2012 09:44 PM

I'm so focused on what I'm doing (even yelling at myself) that I don't even notice if someone is trying gamesmanship. Of course there are a few guys who out and out cheat - line calls, even surreptitiously changing the score on the net post. One guy used to run up to the net waving his arms and racket when the opponent had an overhead, but I don't think it was gamesmanship so much as nuttiness. I just completely focused on the ball when hitting overheads and didn't allow myself to have any clue where he was on the court so he couldn't distract me. About the third overhead he ran into the way of one. He didn't do it again.

Avles 09-22-2012 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6912970)
Beaning people happens even by accident. There is never an "accidental" incident of gamesmanship.

Okay, but you've just said that you bean people intentionally, in part to help "boost your confidence." So the fact that beaning can happen accidentally seems pretty much irrelevant.

And it's certainly possible for something innocently intended to be misinterpreted as gamesmanship.

Quote:

Amongst friends we harass each other all the time. In league theres no place for that. If you wanna bean people, fine, thats part of the game whether its intentional, accidental, or unintentional. Gamesmanship is not part of the game at all.
Uh-huh. So is it okay to bean people unprovoked to intimidate them, or is it only okay when you want to punish them for alleged gamesmanship?

Just trying to get a sense of how your values system works here...


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