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-   -   Best F1 driver right now- Vettel or Alonso (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=441193)

NadalAgassi 09-25-2012 08:58 PM

Best F1 driver right now- Vettel or Alonso
 
There seems to be some debate amongst F1 fans who is the best current F1 driver Sebastien Vettel or Fernando Alonso. They are the only current multi World Driving Champions. Vettel has won the last 2 World Championships but he has naysayers who say he only won due to a perceived vastly superior car. Alonso has made due with a car generally regarded as inferior to not only Red Bull but even McLaren the last 2 years, and despite that has been ahead of many of their drivers the last 2 years, and very nearly won the World Championship in 2010. This year the 3 cars seem closer than previous, even with most in the know still thinking Ferrari is probably the slowest of the 3, and Alonso is leading the World Championship over Vettel.

So who do you consider the best F1 driver, Alonso or Vettel. The thing is I dont think there is anyone who regards Alonso as any less than 2nd best behind Vettel. Nobody views him as inferior to any of Hamilton, Button, Webber, Rosberg. Meanwhile Vettel has people who consider him the best but people who consider him down as low as 4th or 5th best, and people who consider him not only inferior to Alonso but some of Hamilton, Button, Weber, Rosberg, Raikkonen, as well.

NadalAgassi 09-25-2012 09:07 PM

I think Alonso is the better driver personally, and obviously thus the best driver in F1 right now.

PSNELKE 09-26-2012 03:05 AM

As a German I'd love to say Vettel.
But let's be real, Alonso is the most skilled, talented driver in the field followed by Kimi, Lewis and Seb.

I never really liked Alonso but damn that guy knows how to drive a F1 car.
I was impressed with how bad the car was during the first few GPs and he still came out on Top now.

Bobby Jr 09-26-2012 03:16 AM

Yeah, Alonso gets the nod here imo. He's shown a lot of skill in average cars many times before. Vettel is more like Mika Hakkinen was - awesome when the car is hooked up but a little impotent when it's not.

hollywood9826 09-26-2012 03:27 AM

Since Hamilton is the one with Tony Stewart in the commercials here in the States I am supposed to think that Hamilton is the best driver.

In the words of Ric Flair

"To be the man you gotta beat the man"

And the man is Vettel, he still has the title.

MarrratSafin 09-26-2012 04:10 AM

If best means fastest, the answer is Lewis Hamilton without a doubt. The fact is Hamilton started his rookie year only a tad slower than Alonso and by the end of that year he was already on par, if not faster than Alonso.

But he is hampered by team errors, misfortunes with drivers and equipment, etc. Alonso has extremely good racecraft which is why he is leading the championship now.

Peters 09-26-2012 04:11 AM

I have to say, I'm rather interested in this thread. A year ago NadalAgassi, you made an F1 thread in here where you were adamant Vettel was the best driver in Formula1 (when he was whizzing off each race with his superdiffuser) and calling people idiots for suggesting otherwise.

What changed?


One thing's for sure, Alonso is a better driver than Vettel. Actually, I feel Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonnen are all better than Vettel and would have all won the last 2 championships in that 10/11 RedBull at a canter.

It's not an exact science trying to work it all out though. In Formula1, it's never as black&white as simply counting how many championships have been won.

Pete.Sampras. 09-26-2012 04:12 AM

I'd give my vote to Alonso. He was a bit lucky with rainy conditions in the early races of this season, but in every race (except for the "unlucky" Spa) he did the best his car allowed him to do.

Btw OP, don't forget about Schumacher. He is not fighting for the championship but that doesn't take his seven titles away (multi-champion drivers) ;-)

NadalAgassi 09-26-2012 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peters (Post 6919817)
I have to say, I'm rather interested in this thread. A year ago NadalAgassi, you made an F1 thread in here where you were adamant Vettel was the best driver in Formula1 (when he was whizzing off each race with his superdiffuser) and calling people idiots for suggesting otherwise.

What changed?


One thing's for sure, Alonso is a better driver than Vettel. Actually, I feel Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonnen are all better than Vettel and would have all won the last 2 championships in that 10/11 RedBull at a canter.

It's not an exact science trying to work it all out though. In Formula1, it's never as black&white as simply counting how many championships have been won.

Last year Alonso was driving poorly for his standards in addition to the slower car, his car was no worse than 2010 when he nearly won the World Championship despite also having far from the best car. Hamilton was also driving poorly last year and was being far eclipsed by Button in the same car so it is frankly laughable to say he would have won a World title in any car last year. This year both are driving much better than last year, and Raikkonnen is also back and driving very well in a much less competitive car, which makes it not as clear cut anymore, but last year Vettel was clearly the best driver in addition to having the best car.

NadalAgassi 09-26-2012 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarrratSafin (Post 6919815)
If best means fastest, the answer is Lewis Hamilton without a doubt. The fact is Hamilton started his rookie year only a tad slower than Alonso and by the end of that year he was already on par, if not faster than Alonso.

But he is hampered by team errors, misfortunes with drivers and equipment, etc. Alonso has extremely good racecraft which is why he is leading the championship now.

Making mistakes and managing the car is part of being a better driver. Hamilton is much poorer in those areas which have to be factored in. It isnt all about speed. Given all the controversy that went on in McLaren the year Alonso and Hamilton were teammates there I also dont give much credence to anything that happened that year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete.Sampras. (Post 6919818)
Btw OP, don't forget about Schumacher. He is not fighting for the championship but that doesn't take his seven titles away (multi-champion drivers) ;-)

I am no just talking "current" ability. Of course in career greatness Schumacher is the best, although he like Vettel benefited greatly from a dominant car most of his career, and I think ability wise someone like Alonso is just as good as him. However in current ability he has mostly of the time been below Rosberg in the same car since his return to F1 so he doesnt even factor in.

r2473 09-26-2012 07:55 AM

Now that Danica is racing NASCAR, I really don't know.

rainingaces 09-26-2012 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarrratSafin (Post 6919815)
If best means fastest, the answer is Lewis Hamilton without a doubt. The fact is Hamilton started his rookie year only a tad slower than Alonso and by the end of that year he was already on par, if not faster than Alonso.

But he is hampered by team errors, misfortunes with drivers and equipment, etc. Alonso has extremely good racecraft which is why he is leading the championship now.

Thats the media speaking. Alonso was given the number 2 car hence the fallout between him and his team especially ron dennis. Towards the end hamilton was being favoured in every way you can imagine, even though he was a rookie and alonso a 2 time wc.

Hamilton has the best car in testing this year and would probably be winning the title but for a slow start and some reliability problems. Hamilton will have the best car again next year when he moves to mercedes because of new regulations coming in 2013.

Peters 09-26-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6920164)
..but last year Vettel was clearly the best driver in addition to having the best car.

I'd disagree with that since the championship was sown up in that car either way, Vettel just had to keep it on the road. Whereas everyone else had to fight and scrap all season long with inferior equipment. (Apart from Webber, but he's on a low level compared to the best drivers like Alonso/Hamilton & co).

NadalAgassi 09-26-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peters (Post 6920402)
I'd disagree with that since the championship was sown up in that car either way, Vettel just had to keep it on the road. Whereas everyone else had to fight and scrap all season long with inferior equipment. (Apart from Webber, but he's on a low level compared to the best drivers like Alonso/Hamilton & co).

Fair enough. The only way we will ever know for sure is to put everyone in the same car, but that will never happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainingaces (Post 6920189)
Hamilton will have the best car again next year when he moves to mercedes because of new regulations coming in 2013.

Hmm I think the new regulation will help Mercedes but the best car next year? Not impossible but I would be surprised. Either way Hamilton would be taking a gamble going to Mercedes, as what if they turn out to be still slower than McLaren. Who would he replace? Schmacher has talked of retiring but has he made it official. Would the team drop him even if he doesnt volunteeringly go. I could be wrong but I dont see them dropping Rosberg.

Pete.Sampras. 09-26-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6920170)
Making mistakes and managing the car is part of being a better driver. Hamilton is much poorer in those areas which have to be factored in. It isnt all about speed. Given all the controversy that went on in McLaren the year Alonso and Hamilton were teammates there I also dont give much credence to anything that happened that year.



I am no just talking "current" ability. Of course in career greatness Schumacher is the best, although he like Vettel benefited greatly from a dominant car most of his career, and I think ability wise someone like Alonso is just as good as him. However in current ability he has mostly of the time been below Rosberg in the same car since his return to F1 so he doesnt even factor in.

Well, you need a great car to win the championship. Alonso always said that the car is at least 70% of your chances. But Schumacher proved himself in inferior cars and so did Vettel in a few races (not over the course of a whole season, but Vettel did not have as many chances yet).

The Williams was a better car in '94 and '95 when Schumacher won his first titles. Some of Schumacher's Ferrari titles were very close ones as well. There were one or two years when it was indeed easy for him, but "most of his career" seems a bit too much imo ;-)

Vettel seems to do better than his teammates in a great car, but this season showed that he does not always handle a tough situation as well as you would expect. He is still young though. Maybe it will be different in a few years, with more experience. Who knows.

Anyway, right now Alonso is the best...

tistrapukcipeht 09-26-2012 11:48 AM

I voted for Vettel because He has been solid with his car being worse than Ferrari for most of time, He isn't lucky as Alonso, Alonso won several points due to luck.

Career wise, I'd still rate Alonso the best of them all, with Vettel being slightly behind, Vettel is faster driver but still makes a little more mistakes than Alonso, but Vettel is a lot more inexperienced as well.

PS- Michael Schumacher's come back because of money has been very poor and very unlucky as well. The König needs to retire for sure, plus F1 nowadays with DRS/KERS suck.

Pete.Sampras. 09-26-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tistrapukcipeht (Post 6920714)
I voted for Vettel because He has been solid with his car being worse than Ferrari for most of time, He isn't lucky as Alonso, Alonso won several points due to luck.

Career wise, I'd still rate Alonso the best of them all, with Vettel being slightly behind, Vettel is faster driver but still makes a little more mistakes than Alonso, but Vettel is a lot more inexperienced as well.

PS- Michael Schumacher's come back because of money has been very poor and very unlucky as well. The König needs to retire for sure, plus F1 nowadays with DRS/KERS suck.

The Red Bull has been a better car throughout the entire season than the Ferrari.

I guess you're just comparing the two drivers as the poll says because there would be a lot more drivers to mention...

Schumacher is a billionaire and certainly did not return for any money. If you follow the F1 closely like I do (I'm a sports journalist) you will know that Schumacher is better this year than in both years before and still very competitive. The only reason why he does not have as many points as Rosberg is because technical problems on his car forced him to retire in five races. The oher two "dnf" were his own fault though. He's probably not as good as he was in his prime, but he's still among the best.

Oh, it seems I'm starting to defend Schumacher for some reason. This is an Alonso/Vettel thread though. Sorry for that. I'm off now ;-)

NadalAgassi 09-26-2012 02:01 PM

Well Rosberg won a race this year. Is there any race Michael could have won this year even without DNFs. I just looked up some info online and it seems Schumacher is not retiring at the end of this year, atleast not volunteeringly. That case the only way I could see Lewis joining Mercedes (if he even wants to which I am far from convinced) is if they dump Schumacher on their own accord in favor of Hamilton. I dont think Rosberg is going anywhere anytime soon.

Red Bull isnt as dominant as the last 2 years but I havent heard anyone suggest it is slower than Ferrari this year. Alonso in fact has said he thinks his car is only the 4th or 5th fastest this year, not only slower than Red Bull and McLaren as most feel, but slower than Lotus and/or Mercedes as well (though that could be trying to make himself look good).

tistrapukcipeht 09-26-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete.Sampras. (Post 6920934)
The Red Bull has been a better car throughout the entire season than the Ferrari.

I guess you're just comparing the two drivers as the poll says because there would be a lot more drivers to mention...

Schumacher is a billionaire and certainly did not return for any money. If you follow the F1 closely like I do (I'm a sports journalist) you will know that Schumacher is better this year than in both years before and still very competitive. The only reason why he does not have as many points as Rosberg is because technical problems on his car forced him to retire in five races. The oher two "dnf" were his own fault though. He's probably not as good as he was in his prime, but he's still among the best.

Oh, it seems I'm starting to defend Schumacher for some reason. This is an Alonso/Vettel thread though. Sorry for that. I'm off now ;-)

I'm glad you are a sport journalist, because I do follow F1 and have been since 1986 as far as I can remember.

Schumacher Is nowhere near his best, I'd say he is around 40% or lower than his best. He had a lot of investments when the stock marketing in 2008 had that big down side He lost a lot of money, I don't know details about it, since you're in the business you should know about it.

Of course I'm comparing only Vettel and Alonso, that is the poll.

tistrapukcipeht 09-26-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6920971)
Well Rosberg won a race this year. Is there any race Michael could have won this year even without DNFs. I just looked up some info online and it seems Schumacher is not retiring at the end of this year, atleast not volunteeringly. That case the only way I could see Lewis joining Mercedes (if he even wants to which I am far from convinced) is if they dump Schumacher on their own accord in favor of Hamilton. I dont think Rosberg is going anywhere anytime soon.

Red Bull isnt as dominant as the last 2 years but I havent heard anyone suggest it is slower than Ferrari this year. Alonso in fact has said he thinks his car is only the 4th or 5th fastest this year, not only slower than Red Bull and McLaren as most feel, but slower than Lotus and/or Mercedes as well (though that could be trying to make himself look good).

This year has been (like in 2004-2007) has been a competition of tires and tire management, those cars that are less efficient lose.


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