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-   -   Yonex 308 Review (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=441305)

jaydubbs15 09-27-2012 05:49 AM

Yonex 308 Review
 
Guys:

There has to be some rhyme or reason to these reviews. I don't know how you could give the Yonex 308 shoes an overall score of 3.5 when all of the individual scores were higher, and some quite high indeed. I've never worn the shoes let alone play with them, but for your reviews to have any value at all they must make sense mathematically in addition to the commentary. Many of us rely on your reviews but they lose credibility with reviews like this one.

Jay

NJ1 09-27-2012 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydubbs15 (Post 6921943)
Guys:

There has to be some rhyme or reason to these reviews. I don't know how you could give the Yonex 308 shoes an overall score of 3.5 when all of the individual scores were higher, and some quite high indeed. I've never worn the shoes let alone play with them, but for your reviews to have any value at all they must make sense mathematically in addition to the commentary. Many of us rely on your reviews but they lose credibility with reviews like this one.

Jay

Funny you say this, I was looking at the 308s review yesterday and thought the same thing. By all accounts they are great shoes, not sure what gives with the 3.5 rating, sounds like a 3.8-4.1 would be more appropriate.

Nostradamus 09-27-2012 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydubbs15 (Post 6921943)
Guys:

There has to be some rhyme or reason to these reviews. I don't know how you could give the Yonex 308 shoes an overall score of 3.5 when all of the individual scores were higher, and some quite high indeed. I've never worn the shoes let alone play with them, but for your reviews to have any value at all they must make sense mathematically in addition to the commentary. Many of us rely on your reviews but they lose credibility with reviews like this one.

Jay

It's most likely due to durability. Performance wise, it is the best shoes out there, better than Nike Vapor 9 and addidas barricades. but only issue is it is not that durable and wears out little more quickly. but i change shoes pretty often so i have no problem with this.

NJ1 09-27-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 6922098)
It's most likely due to durability. Performance wise, it is the best shoes out there, better than Nike Vapor 9 and addidas barricades. but only issue is it is not that durable and wears out little more quickly. but i change shoes pretty often so i have no problem with this.

Are they worse than Vapors? I cannot buy Vapors for the HCs I lay on as they'd be done inside 24hrs of play time, yet TW lauds the Vapor.

jaydubbs15 09-27-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 6922098)
It's most likely due to durability. Performance wise, it is the best shoes out there, better than Nike Vapor 9 and addidas barricades. but only issue is it is not that durable and wears out little more quickly. but i change shoes pretty often so i have no problem with this.

I just watched the video and it appears that the fit was not the best for the playtesters and there was a ventilation issue as well. But the final score should be adjusted to reflect the scores on the individual criteria or the individual criteria scores should be adjusted to reflect the final score. Perhaps the playtesters simply gave the shoe a final score based on its comparison with other shoes and did not consider the scores given the individual criteria but the scoring should be consistent all around. It just leads to confusion otherwise.

Nostradamus 09-28-2012 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ1 (Post 6922316)
Are they worse than Vapors? I cannot buy Vapors for the HCs I lay on as they'd be done inside 24hrs of play time, yet TW lauds the Vapor.

Yes, durability is worse or same as vapors. if you are heavy grinder on hard courts, yonex shoe won't last very long. but then comfort is Awsome and Support is Awsome.

tistrapukcipeht 09-28-2012 09:27 AM

The final score should have been 4.0, and not 3.5 . I don't think TW likes Yonex that much, lol, Nalbandian is not on Yonex page neither, I think He still plays with Yonex, haha.

tistrapukcipeht 09-28-2012 09:28 AM

I find the same as Nostradamus, durability isn't great, but everything else is superb, the best shoes out there is the 308 in my opinion.

NJ1 09-28-2012 10:12 AM

Thanks top both of you for the info. Looks like I'll have to steer clear of the 308s as I am indeed a grinding style (pusher, around these parts) 5.0 who makes up for numerous other on-court deficiencies through speed, fitness and an unflappable 2hbh.

Shame as I have no doubt the 308s are superb. TW really should modify the score, it looks a little like the are favoring the big sponsors like Nike over the the likes of Yonex.

TW Staff 09-28-2012 12:28 PM

A lack of ventilation and also the comfort issues I had gave it a bit of a hit with my scores. I wasn't the only one to find the way the shoe rolled from heel to toe to not feel natural and I think that hurt the overall score, while there's not really a specific category score which was hurt by that feel.

Chris, TW

NJ1 09-28-2012 01:04 PM

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the explanation, Chris.

tistrapukcipeht 09-29-2012 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ1 (Post 6924492)
Thanks top both of you for the info. Looks like I'll have to steer clear of the 308s as I am indeed a grinding style (pusher, around these parts) 5.0 who makes up for numerous other on-court deficiencies through speed, fitness and an unflappable 2hbh.

Shame as I have no doubt the 308s are superb. TW really should modify the score, it looks a little like the are favoring the big sponsors like Nike over the the likes of Yonex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TW Staff (Post 6924773)
A lack of ventilation and also the comfort issues I had gave it a bit of a hit with my scores. I wasn't the only one to find the way the shoe rolled from heel to toe to not feel natural and I think that hurt the overall score, while there's not really a specific category score which was hurt by that feel.

Chris, TW

I just talking about when the final score, is an average of 5-6 categories, with given notes by each play tester, still is mathematically wrong, when you sum it all up and divide them, the final score is 4. something and not 3.5, there is a math mistake in adding and dividing the score.

I saw a mistake also in one of the Nike's final score that was also bumped up.

Of course everything is subjective to opinions, while for me is the best for others may not be, so Chris's opinions are just as valid as mine and others, so i respect and have always respected one's feedback here at the forum.

jaydubbs15 10-08-2012 08:54 AM

Scoring inconsistencies with TW reviews
 
I will make one final comment and let the issue rest.

This is not the first time I've noticed scoring inconsistences with TW reviews. It is really important to the entire tennis community to maintain the integrity of reviews: to TW, consumers that rely on TW reviews, and even the manufacturers. This is especially true of shoes, but is true of all tennis products.

It's risky to buy any product over the internet for the very reason that descriptions and opinions about products are so subjective, and specifically with shoes because fit varies so widely from manufacturer to manufacturer and shoe to shoe. So it is a leap of faith when a consumer buys a product over the internet based solely on expert reviews. It's risky because if you rely on the reviews and then become disappointed with the product then you will have wasted your time and money purchasing the product and then trying to return it if unsatisfied.

Sloppy mathematics in product reviews detract from the credibility of reviews generally and reduce the value of the web-site altogether, resulting in reduced sales for TW.

Moreover, misscoring reviews does not help any of the manufacturers -- obviously not the one that was downwardly misscored, but also not the manufacturers of products that appear to be superior to the misscored one because of a relatively better review. This is because relative sales of competing products communicate to sellers what attributes buyers prefer. But inaccurate reviews may artificially deflate sales of better products and inflate sales of inferior ones, which may signal to manufacturers that consumers prefer products with certain characteristics that received positive feedback from reviewers. As a result, manufacturers alter product design in the hopes of capturing greater market share with product modifications that in reality consumers don't prefer at all.

So, inaccurate reviews are bad for everyone: TW, all manufacturers, and consumers alike.

Enough said.

TW Staff 10-08-2012 09:42 AM

Please understand the overall score is not the average of the other scores, it is the overall impression of the shoe. Each tester provides their overall score (which can take into account fit, feel, cosmetics and other intangibles not scored in the other sections) and the average of those scores is posted as the overall.

In regards to scores, they are as much opinion as the comments. The testers are not always the same from review to review, people's opinions change over time and I have seen testers go from scoring tough to being much more generous as the years go by. I think that when a number is assigned to something, people tend to take that in a more factual way, but in the end it simply is a reflection of the findings of a group of testers at the time.

We do our best to be fair and accurate. When our reviews are glowing, we get accused of being positive just to boost sales. When we ding something that others like, we get accused of being biased, clueless or what have you. That being said, the scoring is as accurate as possible and the overall score stands alone as the average of the scores for the overall impression of the shoe.

Hope that helps.

Chris, TW

jaydubbs15 10-08-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TW Staff (Post 6942410)
Please understand the overall score is not the average of the other scores, it is the overall impression of the shoe. Each tester provides their overall score (which can take into account fit, feel, cosmetics and other intangibles not scored in the other sections) and the average of those scores is posted as the overall.

In regards to scores, they are as much opinion as the comments. The testers are not always the same from review to review, people's opinions change over time and I have seen testers go from scoring tough to being much more generous as the years go by. I think that when a number is assigned to something, people tend to take that in a more factual way, but in the end it simply is a reflection of the findings of a group of testers at the time.

We do our best to be fair and accurate. When our reviews are glowing, we get accused of being positive just to boost sales. When we ding something that others like, we get accused of being biased, clueless or what have you. That being said, the scoring is as accurate as possible and the overall score stands alone as the average of the scores for the overall impression of the shoe.

Hope that helps.

Chris, TW

Thank you Chris for being so incredibly responsive, articulate, and helpful! TW is lucky to have you. I thought that was what was going on with reviews, i.e., that the final score meant more than the individual scores and wasn't the mathematical average of all of the scores of individual characteristics.

I recommend the following to be helpful to consumers and all concerned: simply have your product testers rank the products with each review. For example, if a new product comes out, at the end of the review each of the testers would say that he/she would rank this product 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., behind other named products (current offerings as well as past offerings) and state why. Sometimes the reviewers do just that and it's very helpful. So perhaps product review rankings (and updated rankings) would be more helpful than raw scores, which as you point out, vary from reviewer to reviewer, whose tastes change over time, can be whimsically more or less generous with scores, and where the reviewers themselves may change with each product reviewed.

As an aside, it's also odd to me that some products are not reviewed at all. I play USTA league tennis in Metro NYC. The most popular tennis shoe among league players hands down is the Prince T22 because it is so good in virtually every category, including ventilation, weight, durability, stability, and price. It's a great shoe and even better because of it's great value. Yet, this shoe has not even been reviewed by TW. I may not have given this shoe a try were it not for the fact that SO many league players wear them.

jaydubbs15 10-08-2012 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydubbs15 (Post 6942581)
Thank you Chris for being so incredibly responsive, articulate, and helpful! TW is lucky to have you. I thought that was what was going on with reviews, i.e., that the final score meant more than the individual scores and wasn't the mathematical average of all of the scores of individual characteristics.

I recommend the following to be helpful to consumers and all concerned: simply have your product testers rank the products with each review. For example, if a new product comes out, at the end of the review each of the testers would say that he/she would rank this product 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc., behind other named products (current offerings as well as past offerings) and state why. Sometimes the reviewers do just that and it's very helpful. So perhaps product review rankings (and updated rankings) would be more helpful than raw scores, which as you point out, vary from reviewer to reviewer, whose tastes change over time, can be whimsically more or less generous with scores, and where the reviewers themselves may change with each product reviewed.

As an aside, it's also odd to me that some products are not reviewed at all. I play USTA league tennis in Metro NYC. The most popular tennis shoe among league players hands down is the Prince T22 because it is so good in virtually every category, including ventilation, weight, durability, stability, and price. It's a great shoe and even better because of it's great value. Yet, this shoe has not even been reviewed by TW. I may not have given this shoe a try were it not for the fact that SO many league players wear them.

... having said the foregoing, I now have a bit of egg on my face because TW's review of the Prince T24 is very close to what I recommend and it was a very helpful review ....

TW Staff 10-08-2012 11:56 AM

Thank you for the feedback. We have recently built in a comparison section to all of our review formats (racquets, shoes and strings). While we don't ask our testers to rank each product compared to others in a review, we do ask them to provide comments on how the product stacks up against others they have tried. With racquets and strings, every tester has lots to compare. With shoes, experience is somewhat more limited.

Chris, TW

tistrapukcipeht 10-08-2012 02:49 PM

Chris, help me out here:

You have 8 categories with given notes, to get the final score you divide the total by 8 and get the final score which is the review's score??

Wrong or right?

Thanks.

TW Staff 10-08-2012 03:27 PM

The overall score is not the average of all of the other scores.

The overall score listed in each review is a score given to the overall impression of the shoe. It takes into account things which are not scored in other sections so it is not an average of the other scores.

For instance, we do not score a shoe on how it looks. A shoe could feel great, but if a player can't stand the sight of his own feet every time he looks down, they could affect his overall score. Alternatively, the fashion diva might score his shoes higher overall if he just loves the way they look (I wont mention any names like Jason here, because I don't want anyone to think any of our testers are shallow).

Hope that helps,
Chris, TW

mirceam 11-04-2012 10:29 AM

How is Yonex SHT 308 vs Addidas Baricade 6 . I play only on clay


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