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-   -   Whatever Happened To Common Courtesy? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=441306)

Cindysphinx 09-27-2012 05:53 AM

Whatever Happened To Common Courtesy?
 
I have captained teams continuously since 2006. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems like more players are failing to honor their commitments nowadays.

Just this year, I had one returning player commit to my spring team in November and several times after that. When it came time to register in April, she stopped answering my emails and never signed up. It got to the point that I worried something terrible had happened, but I have learned she plays regularly at her club. Her disappearing act came so late, I wasn't able to find a replacement and we had shortage of singles players.

I had another lady agree to join my tri-level team. As the roster filled, she proposed another player as her partner. I looked up the other player and learned she was weak and not a frequent partner of this lady. I didn't wish to use my last roster spot on her. The lady who had agreed to join then wrote to me to say that she was dropping off the team because she hadn't received the team code for registration, so she was joining another team instead.

I have had two other ladies agree to join my team, only to go completely silent. They have ignored emails point-blank asking them if they are going to play.

I'm sorry, but that is rude, rude, rude. Don't accept and have a captain hold a spot for you for months and then back out absent a darn good reason.

If you will only join if your partner joins also or if you have other terms to negotiate, say that up front.

If you must back out, *say so* and don't go all Ostrich-With-Head-In-Sand. The captain who held your spot deserves an honest explanation (if you ever hope to be invited back).

And for all that is good and holy, don't gin up a bogus reason like you didn't receive the team code, 'cause that makes you look like the victim of massive head trauma.

If this is how the captain of a successful team is treated, I cannot imagine the horrors visited upon captains of new or less successful teams.

NTRPolice 09-27-2012 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6921952)
I have captained teams continuously since 2006. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems like more players are failing to honor their commitments nowadays.

Just this year, I had one returning player commit to my spring team in November and several times after that. When it came time to register in April, she stopped answering my emails and never signed up. It got to the point that I worried something terrible had happened, but I have learned she plays regularly at her club. Her disappearing act came so late, I wasn't able to find a replacement and we had shortage of singles players.

I had another lady agree to join my tri-level team. As the roster filled, she proposed another player as her partner. I looked up the other player and learned she was weak and not a frequent partner of this lady. I didn't wish to use my last roster spot on her. The lady who had agreed to join then wrote to me to say that she was dropping off the team because she hadn't received the team code for registration, so she was joining another team instead.

I have had two other ladies agree to join my team, only to go completely silent. They have ignored emails point-blank asking them if they are going to play.

I'm sorry, but that is rude, rude, rude. Don't accept and have a captain hold a spot for you for months and then back out absent a darn good reason.

If you will only join if your partner joins also or if you have other terms to negotiate, say that up front.

If you must back out, *say so* and don't go all Ostrich-With-Head-In-Sand. The captain who held your spot deserves an honest explanation (if you ever hope to be invited back).

And for all that is good and holy, don't gin up a bogus reason like you didn't receive the team code, 'cause that makes you look like the victim of massive head trauma.

If this is how the captain of a successful team is treated, I cannot imagine the horrors visited upon captains of new or less successful teams.

I dont think that has anything to do with the teams strength. I think that has to do with the people themselves. While I do believe that finding people for a strong team is easier than finding them for a weak team, I think its more important to focus on the "honoring the commitment" aspect, not the strength of the team.

It's hard to find solid players. I define a solid player as:

-Goes to practice.
-Shows for matches on time, every time.
-Will play with whoever for whatever if an executive decision has to be made.
(Sometimes its in the best interest to split people up from their dedicated partners, or move them around in different lines. Not every person is down like that.)
-Commits to go to nationals/sectionals/playoffs and honors that commitment.
-Gives the best cancellation notice possible if there is an unplanned absence for a scheduled match.

I've seen people on "nationals" teams who do not even meet half of these qualities. One year, one team failed to go to nationals because someone decided to have a baby even though it was decided beforehand that they were going to nationals. They only had 8. A season isnt 9 months long... im sure you can figure it out.


PS: I had some good laughs just now because that team captain still goes off about the baby situation till this day. He's not that mad anymore because hes going to nationals this year, but AFAIK those two still arnt talking. Keep in mind, the captain is like 50 and the dude who had the baby is like 30 but this little drama they had reminded me of some 16 year old high school girls on a talk show. They're both good guys, but this "situation" was hilarious. But I can say that, because I wasnt one of the people who were basically screwed out of a national title. haha.

Topaz 09-27-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6922015)
I've seen people on "nationals" teams who do not even meet half of these qualities. One year, one team failed to go to nationals because someone decided to have a baby even though it was decided beforehand that they were going to nationals. They only had 8. A season isnt 9 months long... im sure you can figure it out.

Seriously. What's wrong with peoples' priorities these days.

spot 09-27-2012 06:39 AM

Quote:

One year, one team failed to go to nationals because someone decided to have a baby even though it was decided beforehand that they were going to nationals.
The outrage.

sureshs 09-27-2012 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6922015)
One year, one team failed to go to nationals because someone decided to have a baby even though it was decided beforehand that they were going to nationals. They only had 8. A season isnt 9 months long... im sure you can figure it out.

What if the baby was not planned?

Or what if a couple has been trying to have a baby for a long time and taking some treatments too? Should the woman never join a team because she could become pregnant any time?

NTRPolice 09-27-2012 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6922028)
What if the baby was not planned?

Or what if a couple has been trying to have a baby for a long time and taking some treatments too? Should the woman never join a team because she could become pregnant any time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spot (Post 6922023)
The outrage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topaz (Post 6922019)
Seriously. What's wrong with peoples' priorities these days.

Ok geniuses...

A season is NOT 9 months long... think about it...

Either his wife hid the pregnancy for months or he committed to going to nationals without asking his wife first knowing they were having a baby.

Did I really have to spell that out for you?

spaceman_spiff 09-27-2012 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6921952)
I have captained teams continuously since 2006. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems like more players are failing to honor their commitments nowadays.

Just this year, I had one returning player commit to my spring team in November and several times after that. When it came time to register in April, she stopped answering my emails and never signed up. It got to the point that I worried something terrible had happened, but I have learned she plays regularly at her club. Her disappearing act came so late, I wasn't able to find a replacement and we had shortage of singles players.

I had another lady agree to join my tri-level team. As the roster filled, she proposed another player as her partner. I looked up the other player and learned she was weak and not a frequent partner of this lady. I didn't wish to use my last roster spot on her. The lady who had agreed to join then wrote to me to say that she was dropping off the team because she hadn't received the team code for registration, so she was joining another team instead.

I have had two other ladies agree to join my team, only to go completely silent. They have ignored emails point-blank asking them if they are going to play.

I'm sorry, but that is rude, rude, rude. Don't accept and have a captain hold a spot for you for months and then back out absent a darn good reason.

If you will only join if your partner joins also or if you have other terms to negotiate, say that up front.

If you must back out, *say so* and don't go all Ostrich-With-Head-In-Sand. The captain who held your spot deserves an honest explanation (if you ever hope to be invited back).

And for all that is good and holy, don't gin up a bogus reason like you didn't receive the team code, 'cause that makes you look like the victim of massive head trauma.

If this is how the captain of a successful team is treated, I cannot imagine the horrors visited upon captains of new or less successful teams.

Judging by your aversion to taking the "weak" partner, and I admit it's a small amount of evidence to go by, I think you might be picking your players the wrong way. I think you're trying to pick the "stongest" players rather than the most reliable players, and you're finding out that these strong players can't be bothered to turn up or sign up.

My club's top men's team here has the same problem. On paper, we have the strongest team in the county and should manage to win the league each season, and the old captain picked the team that way. But, the three strongest players are also the three least reliable players, and they have always caused problems with their reluctance to play matches or their tendency to pull out at the last minute. This led to all sorts of problems for the captain and he eventually just quit.

Remember that this is recreational tennis. A successful team is one that enjoys its tennis. The best way to enjoy being a captain is to pick the most reliable players to join your team. Those might not be the ones that will take you to nationals, but they won't be the ones leading you to rant about the lack of common courtesy.

spot 09-27-2012 07:12 AM

The funny thing is that this thread is about Cindy asking for completely reasonable things that are truly the bare minimum level of respect. Then the example you use is of the captain who is too extreme who expects people to make tennis their #1 priority no matter what. And then you use the most extreme example I have heard of a captain who is ****ed because a teammate wouldn't prioritize tennis over a pregnancy. I mean I thought that I knew the most extreme example of a guy who was ****ed that a guy wouldn't come back early from his honeymoon to play because "he made a commitment to the team" but being mad about a pregnancy!?

ANyway- Cindy it just shows once again how much better teammates people are once they have been captain before. I seriously doubt that anyone who has ever captained would do something like that. Just showing once again what a thankless job it is to be captain of a bunch of random people who don't ahve any incentive to see the big picture.

spot 09-27-2012 07:14 AM

When Adding people to the men's team there are 3 criteria. They can be good. They can be reliable. They can fit in socially. If someone has all 3 they are a perfect fit. If someone has 2 qualities they can be useful. But if someone only has one quality then it just doesn't work to have them on the team.

slowfox 09-27-2012 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6922015)
One year, one team failed to go to nationals because someone decided to have a baby even though it was decided beforehand that they were going to nationals.

Based on the wording I thought this someone spontaneously decided to go make babies instead of going to nationals, like on that day... haha.

As for courtesy, wouldn't it be nice if team captains would reply to inquiries from folks who want to join? If there are no spots, just say so. I'll understand. All I get is silence... lol. Maybe they know I suck..?? :)

As for common, it is anything but common. Cindy - I'm sorry about the inconveniences your team has caused you. It IS rude. Integrity is crumbling in this world.

LuckyR 09-27-2012 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6921952)
I have captained teams continuously since 2006. Maybe it is my imagination, but it seems like more players are failing to honor their commitments nowadays.

Just this year, I had one returning player commit to my spring team in November and several times after that. When it came time to register in April, she stopped answering my emails and never signed up. It got to the point that I worried something terrible had happened, but I have learned she plays regularly at her club. Her disappearing act came so late, I wasn't able to find a replacement and we had shortage of singles players.

I had another lady agree to join my tri-level team. As the roster filled, she proposed another player as her partner. I looked up the other player and learned she was weak and not a frequent partner of this lady. I didn't wish to use my last roster spot on her. The lady who had agreed to join then wrote to me to say that she was dropping off the team because she hadn't received the team code for registration, so she was joining another team instead.

I have had two other ladies agree to join my team, only to go completely silent. They have ignored emails point-blank asking them if they are going to play.

I'm sorry, but that is rude, rude, rude. Don't accept and have a captain hold a spot for you for months and then back out absent a darn good reason.

If you will only join if your partner joins also or if you have other terms to negotiate, say that up front.

If you must back out, *say so* and don't go all Ostrich-With-Head-In-Sand. The captain who held your spot deserves an honest explanation (if you ever hope to be invited back).

And for all that is good and holy, don't gin up a bogus reason like you didn't receive the team code, 'cause that makes you look like the victim of massive head trauma.

If this is how the captain of a successful team is treated, I cannot imagine the horrors visited upon captains of new or less successful teams.



This change in social norms is real. Of course there are generational changes, but that likely does not account for this observation since they are probably the same individuals who over time have adopted a style that used (and still) to be called "rude".

I can only point to the take-over of electronic (vs older fashioned) communication for this. Sure, snicker if you want but do you disagree that 1) Cindy's observation is not on the rise? and 2) that you have another explanation for it?

Cindysphinx 09-27-2012 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowfox (Post 6922104)
Based on the wording I thought this someone spontaneously decided to go make babies instead of going to nationals, like on that day... haha.

As for courtesy, wouldn't it be nice if team captains would reply to inquiries from folks who want to join? If there are no spots, just say so. I'll understand. All I get is silence... lol. Maybe they know I suck..?? :)

As for common, it is anything but common. Cindy - I'm sorry about the inconveniences your team has caused you. It IS rude. Integrity is crumbling in this world.

I respond to players asking if I have a spot, and I will put them into contact with any captains I know are looking for players.

Really, it takes five seconds, just slightly more time than to delete the message. A curt "I don't have a spot" is better than nothing.

tennis tom 09-27-2012 07:34 AM

"Whatever Happened To Common Courtesy?"

It is disintegrating along with the other human values that bind citizens together forming a civilization within an empire.

Cindysphinx 09-27-2012 07:38 AM

Part of it has to be the technology, LuckyR.

If I get you on the phone, you have to deal with me and say *something.*

With an email or a text, if you stall long enough it falls off your screen and then doesn't exist in your mind anymore.

There is one other factor that could be at work for some people. Nowadays, captains fill their spring rosters as early as December. If you choose to wait, you will struggle to find players. Players do not wish to decline these early invitations because the door may not be open later, so they accept. Then something better comes along -- and they just blow off the first commitment.

Maybe I should start taking non-refundable deposits . . .

Cindy -- so, so tempted to agree to take some of these ladies onto the team and then yanking the invitation the day before the season starts

slowfox 09-27-2012 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6922130)
Really, it takes five seconds, just slightly more time than to delete the message. A curt "I don't have a spot" is better than nothing.

Agreed. Thank you.

beernutz 09-27-2012 07:43 AM

double post

floridatennisdude 09-27-2012 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis tom (Post 6922133)
"Whatever Happened To Common Courtesy?"

It is disintegrating along with the other human values that bind citizens together forming a civilization within an empire.

Yea, people are even having babies instead of going to Rec league nationals. This world is just wacky.

beernutz 09-27-2012 07:44 AM

Why this problem isn't going away...
 

gmatheis 09-27-2012 07:47 AM

Title reminded me of a thing I read a while back ... enjoy :)

----

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;

- Why the early bird gets the worm;

- Life isnít always fair;

- And maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (donít spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place.

Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldnít defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death,

-by his parents, Truth and Trust,

-by his wife, Discretion,

-by his daughter, Responsibility,

-and by his son, Reason.

He is survived by his 5 stepbrothers;

- I Know My Rights

- I Want It Now

- Someone Else Is To Blame

- Iím A Victim

- Pay Me For Doing Nothing

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

r2473 09-27-2012 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6922108)
This change in social norms is real. Of course there are generational changes, but that likely does not account for this observation since they are probably the same individuals who over time have adopted a style that used (and still) to be called "rude".

I can only point to the take-over of electronic (vs older fashioned) communication for this. Sure, snicker if you want but do you disagree that 1) Cindy's observation is not on the rise? and 2) that you have another explanation for it?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6922142)
Part of it has to be the technology, LuckyR.

If I get you on the phone, you have to deal with me and say *something.*

With an email or a text, if you stall long enough it falls off your screen and then doesn't exist in your mind anymore.

There is one other factor that could be at work for some people. Nowadays, captains fill their spring rosters as early as December. If you choose to wait, you will struggle to find players. Players do not wish to decline these early invitations because the door may not be open later, so they accept. Then something better comes along -- and they just blow off the first commitment.

Maybe I should start taking non-refundable deposits . . .

Cindy -- so, so tempted to agree to take some of these ladies onto the team and then yanking the invitation the day before the season starts

"The world is going to hell in a hand basket" is a theme throughout human history. The industrial revolution. The automobile. The movies. TV. Computers. Cellphones.

These may all be manifestations, but it always has been and always will be a character issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmatheis (Post 6922172)
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. .

This is a theme that is as old as human history as well. For some reason we all long for "the good old days that never really were".


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