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-   -   did you choke or were you beat? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=441674)

pushing_wins 09-30-2012 10:50 PM

did you choke or were you beat?
 
how can you tell?

Dreamcastin 09-30-2012 11:00 PM

when you do things that you wouldnt normally do tactics wise or when you feel yourself tense up and not "swing" at the ball, thats when you know youve choked.

Orion3 09-30-2012 11:08 PM

If you don't know yourself - nobody can tell you.

Choking is normally down to nerves - often, you start playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

If you get beat - its simple. You play as well as you can (on the given day) but your opponent plays better. Hits one more ball or hits more winners.

The Meat 10-01-2012 02:38 AM

A couple of weeks ago I played in a college club tournament against this one guy and lost 6-0. He was serving in the 120's, huge forehand and never missed a single shot. He should have been in D1 but I don't know his reason why he doesn't. When you only win 3 points on your own serve, that's when you know you've been beaten.

NTRPolice 10-01-2012 04:32 AM

Double fault on my serve at 7-5 in the tie break.

6-7

He wins his two serves

7-8

I lose the next point

7-9

I double fault again...

7-10

I only double faulted 4 times in the whole match. Twice in the tie break. Once on match point. Yeah, that's pretty much choking.

pushing_wins 10-01-2012 08:04 PM

40-0 first game serving

i started thinking ....if i could only fluke out an ace, i would have avoided the dreaded double bagel.

i ended up losing the game.

choke?

goran_ace 10-01-2012 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 6930602)
40-0 first game serving

i started thinking ....if i could only fluke out an ace, i would have avoided the dreaded double bagel.

i ended up losing the game.

choke?

That's not a choke, that's just poor decision-making. An ace should not be a fluke, you go for it because you know you can get an ace or a service winner off of it. Your alternatives to avoiding the double bagel are getting your first serve in or getting your second serve in. Choking implies falling apart under pressure. You're up 40-0. There's no pressure on you. If you can't get a serve in the box at will then you have no business going for an ace. Luck has nothing to do with it. If you don't have the type of serve that can reliably and consistently win you points then you need to think more along the lines of starting the point and finishing it with your groundstrokes.

pushing_wins 10-02-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goran_ace (Post 6930783)
That's not a choke, that's just poor decision-making. An ace should not be a fluke, you go for it because you know you can get an ace or a service winner off of it. Your alternatives to avoiding the double bagel are getting your first serve in or getting your second serve in. Choking implies falling apart under pressure. You're up 40-0. There's no pressure on you. If you can't get a serve in the box at will then you have no business going for an ace. Luck has nothing to do with it. If you don't have the type of serve that can reliably and consistently win you points then you need to think more along the lines of starting the point and finishing it with your groundstrokes.

trust me 40-0 5-0. i can blow it easily.

i was hoping for a shank winner.

the point is......got to stay in the moment. once u start thinking, if only i did that ....u are done.

or maybe he started trying at 0-40. idk

MonkeyRacquet 10-02-2012 03:48 PM

I was winning 4-1 when either he started to clutch or I started to choke.
Lost 4 games in a row then i barely won 7-6.

dominikk1985 10-02-2012 04:12 PM

many rec players think that they choke or underperform but in reality that is just their level of play.

we tend to remember our highlights the most. thus we think that "on fire" periods are the norm how we should play. of course we all have those periods where we don't miss a ball for 10 minutes but this not our normal level of play.

if we think like that we lie to ourselves.

Mick 10-02-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 6932108)
many rec players think that they choke or underperform but in reality that is just their level of play.

we tend to remember our highlights the most. thus we think that "on fire" periods are the norm how we should play. of course we all have those periods where we don't miss a ball for 10 minutes but this not our normal level of play.

if we think like that we lie to ourselves.

everybody's here is 4.5 until proven otherwise :)

TennisA 10-03-2012 12:54 AM

I can tell if I choke when I start missing really easy balls. If I get beat, I won't have a chance to miss balls considering my opponent is usually hitting winners/outrallies me.

LuckyR 10-03-2012 08:09 AM

Losing this way or that way is not the way to tell. 99% of the time you lose, you got beat. The one exception is if you dominate the match, win the first set, up a break in the second then completely fold and end up losing the match. That is choking. Missing "easy" shots alone is not choking.

pushing_wins 10-03-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6933187)
Losing this way or that way is not the way to tell. 99% of the time you lose, you got beat. The one exception is if you dominate the match, win the first set, up a break in the second then completely fold and end up losing the match. That is choking. Missing "easy" shots alone is not choking.

i was planning to burn my racquets after the match if i had been competitive.

my body moved as one piece. my arm and whole right side felt like a rigid piece of wood. kinetic chain was not existent. i was over-running short balls.

i played for 4 more hrs after the match. i was hitting fine against same level of player (by looking at their tournament result).

i dont know whats worse - being a choker or lacking the innate qualities. maybe both?!

LeeD 10-03-2012 12:10 PM

The best part of losing and choking, tightening up and playing badly, is .....
that Federer, Agassi, Connors, McEnroe, Murray, etc. have all done it, have all gone thru your exact experience, back in the past.

LuckyR 10-03-2012 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 6933683)
i was planning to burn my racquets after the match if i had been competitive.

my body moved as one piece. my arm and whole right side felt like a rigid piece of wood. kinetic chain was not existent. i was over-running short balls.

i played for 4 more hrs after the match. i was hitting fine against same level of player (by looking at their tournament result).

i dont know whats worse - being a choker or lacking the innate qualities. maybe both?!


I get it. Take a step back and look at it this way: everyone expects that you would have less nerves just hittin' aroun' with your buds as you would in a match that you cared about, right? That is a given. The unknown is how much these nerves are going to impact your game. Maybe a lot, maybe a little. That is not choking, that is typical, expected, matchplay nerves, stagefright, whathaveyou.

You can lessen that over time with experience, yoga, hypnotism, whatever. Hell, if Murray is doing it, why would you expect not to be dealing with it?

Choking is when (even with your matchplay nerves) you are dominating, then do a 180 and lose abruptly.

pushing_wins 10-03-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyR (Post 6933917)
I get it. Take a step back and look at it this way: everyone expects that you would have less nerves just hittin' aroun' with your buds as you would in a match that you cared about, right? That is a given. The unknown is how much these nerves are going to impact your game. Maybe a lot, maybe a little. That is not choking, that is typical, expected, matchplay nerves, stagefright, whathaveyou.

You can lessen that over time with experience, yoga, hypnotism, whatever. Hell, if Murray is doing it, why would you expect not to be dealing with it?

Choking is when (even with your matchplay nerves) you are dominating, then do a 180 and lose abruptly.

i want it to end. but, i am not sure how close i m to the finish line.

i must feel i m close (may only be a misconception) which really adds to the tension.

LuckyR 10-03-2012 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 6934003)
i want it to end. but, i am not sure how close i m to the finish line.

i must feel i m close (may only be a misconception) which really adds to the tension.


A lot of players play to win the point until they are at game point, then they play to not lose. That is to say, they change how they play. Why would anyone be suprised at a change in outcome when the player changes how they play the game?

These players run into trouble with high consistancy players, since they are not going to lose the point themselves.

LeeD 10-03-2012 03:23 PM

I believe there are TWO players on a singles court, and both trying his best to win. What YOU do is not always the key. Maybe what you, AND him, does is a better reflection on the course of the tennis match.

pushing_wins 10-03-2012 11:12 PM

commentary from bagdahitis monaco match - skysports 2

"the unconscious mind operates at 40 million bits of data per second, whereas the conscious mind processes at only 40 bits per second"


you dont want to be thinking during a point


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