Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   General Pro Player Discussion (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Why so many great West German tennis players (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=441952)

NadalAgassi 10-03-2012 12:24 PM

Why so many great West German tennis players
 
One thing I find surprising looking back in tennis is how many of the great German players were West, not East German. Becker, Stich, Graf, and Kohde Kilsch, the 4 best German players to emerge in the Open Era are all West German. That was not the norm in sport, by a huge margin more great athlete cames from East Germany than West Germany, in large part to a heavily invested doping program of the 70s and 80s.

ICanBeSerious 10-03-2012 12:28 PM

Nice question on Unity Day :p

Russeljones 10-03-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6933563)
One thing I find surprising looking back in tennis is how many of the great German players were West, not East German. Becker, Stich, Graf, and Kohde Kilsch, the 4 best German players to emerge in the Open Era are all West German. That was not the norm in sport, by a huge margin more great athlete cames from East Germany than West Germany, in large part to a heavily invested doping program of the 70s and 80s.

Because PED's can't help you in a sport of skill.

NadalAgassi 10-03-2012 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russeljones (Post 6933648)
Because PED's can't help you in a sport of skill.

True but the West Germans were producing few top level athletes in any sport in the 80s.

treblings 10-03-2012 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6933563)
One thing I find surprising looking back in tennis is how many of the great German players were West, not East German. Becker, Stich, Graf, and Kohde Kilsch, the 4 best German players to emerge in the Open Era are all West German. That was not the norm in sport, by a huge margin more great athlete cames from East Germany than West Germany, in large part to a heavily invested doping program of the 70s and 80s.

Tennis was considered a capitalist sport and not sponsored in Eastern Germany. travel to western countries was very much restricted.
the best eastern german player for many years was Thomas Emmrich, but i donīt think he was allowed to play major tournaments

NadalAgassi 10-03-2012 12:55 PM

Sylvia Hanika was East German or West? I think Anke Huber was East but she came up in the 90s.

Mustard 10-03-2012 01:41 PM

Tennis was probably seen as a bourgeois sport by the East German authorities, so not much money was spent on tennis compared to say, athletics.

Mustard 10-03-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6933665)
Sylvia Hanika was East German or West? I think Anke Huber was East but she came up in the 90s.

Sylvia Hanika is from Munich, so West Germany. Anke Huber is from Bruchsal (West Germany).

dominikk1985 10-03-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6933563)
One thing I find surprising looking back in tennis is how many of the great German players were West, not East German. Becker, Stich, Graf, and Kohde Kilsch, the 4 best German players to emerge in the Open Era are all West German. That was not the norm in sport, by a huge margin more great athlete cames from East Germany than West Germany, in large part to a heavily invested doping program of the 70s and 80s.

the GDR only fueled olympic sports because they used the olympics were a huge propaganda thing in the socialist countries. and tennis only became olympic when the GDR was already close to collapse.

on top of that tennis was especially disliked since it was considered a "rich mans sport". they had a very good player named thomas emmerich was was GDR champ for about 15 times at least but the GDR didn't allow him to play international tournaments (BTW I had some lessons with him since he is now coaching at my former club).

dominikk1985 10-03-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mustard (Post 6933789)
Tennis was probably seen as a bourgeois sport by the East German authorities, so not much money was spent on tennis compared to say, athletics.

this and it was not olympic.

pound cat 10-03-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6933563)
One thing I find surprising looking back in tennis is how many of the great German players were West, not East German. Becker, Stich, Graf, and Kohde Kilsch, the 4 best German players to emerge in the Open Era are all West German. That was not the norm in sport, by a huge margin more great athlete cames from East Germany than West Germany, in large part to a heavily invested doping program of the 70s and 80s.


I was going to answer your question until I read your "theory" about doping. Do you know anything about East germany and it's history? I presume not.

kiki 10-03-2012 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pound cat (Post 6934013)
I was going to answer your question until I read your "theory" about doping. Do you know anything about East germany and it's history? I presume not.

Only the Soviet anthem was more beautiful than the DDRīs:)

NadalAgassi 10-03-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pound cat (Post 6934013)
I was going to answer your question until I read your "theory" about doping. Do you know anything about East germany and it's history? I presume not.

Actually virtually every East German female swimmer and track star of the 70s and 80s has in the aftermatch of the unification of Germany publicly admited to doping, often either being forced to from a young age or having it secretly injected in their diet. The East German very scientific, well funded, and well researched doping program has been chronicled in various documentaries in the years since with East German doctors who were once involved in the program speaking to how they did it. It is you who knows nothing if you actually by some amazing miracle did know about this. Not that I think it means much since doping was at its all time height in Olympic sport in the 70s and 80s, atleast now they have some moderately successful drug testing which scares some away from it in "some" sports.

On another note most womens track and field World records are still from the 80s, and nearly all held by some Communist country, East Germany, Soviet Union, Czech Republic, and others, along with a few American records. Pretty much unbelievable to put it mildly.

dangalak 10-03-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pound cat (Post 6934013)
I was going to answer your question until I read your "theory" about doping. Do you know anything about East germany and it's history? I presume not.

:lol::lol::lol: .

Mike Bulgakov 10-03-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6933563)
Becker, Stich, Graf, and Kohde Kilsch, the 4 best German players to emerge in the Open Era are all West German.

Don't forget the smooth and stylish Bettina Bunge.




jaggy 10-03-2012 06:11 PM

Couple of points already posted, Olympics were more important to the east and Bunge was hot

Crisstti 10-03-2012 07:08 PM

The situation was similar with football from West and East Germany.

Lefty78 10-03-2012 07:46 PM

Because communism is a sickness of the soul, and greatness in a sport like tennis cannot be achieved without the desire to exalt oneself.

To be a great tennis player in a communist country, one must be a dissident, like Ivan Lendl.

It also doesn't hurt that the commies haven't historically supported tennis.

Mustard 10-03-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisstti (Post 6934365)
The situation was similar with football from West and East Germany.

East Germany won the only match they played against each other, though, at the 1974 World Cup. East German domestic football had teams that were supported by different sections of the state authorities, like the Stasi and the Police.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty78 (Post 6934415)
Because communism is a sickness of the soul, and greatness in a sport like tennis cannot be achieved without the desire to exalt oneself.

To be a great tennis player in a communist country, one must be a dissident, like Ivan Lendl.

It also doesn't hurt that the commies haven't historically supported tennis.

Well, I'm a communist. Communism is stateless and classless. That does not describe East Germany from 1948-1989. East Germany was a Stalinist state (a totalitarian state bureaucracy that rules over the masses while resting on a state planned economy). Now, the state planned economy was a huge positive, but the totalitarian bureaucratic rule was a huge negative that eventually choked the life out of the planned economy, leading to the restoration of capitalism.

kOaMaster 10-03-2012 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 6933989)
the GDR only fueled olympic sports because they used the olympics were a huge propaganda thing in the socialist countries. and tennis only became olympic when the GDR was already close to collapse.

on top of that tennis was especially disliked since it was considered a "rich mans sport". they had a very good player named thomas emmerich was was GDR champ for about 15 times at least but the GDR didn't allow him to play international tournaments (BTW I had some lessons with him since he is now coaching at my former club).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 6933998)
this and it was not olympic.

I can second this.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse