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-   -   Over 45 and dragging? Consider getting your testosterone checked. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442146)

Lil123 10-05-2012 12:01 PM

Over 45 and dragging? Consider getting your testosterone checked.
 
Get that Testosterone level checked if any of this sounds familiar.

I'm an avid 4.5 tennis player who is fast approaching 5.0; not as in the USTA rating (don't think I'll ever get there), but rather as in decades on earth. I'm also a lifelong fitness obsessive who has always taken very good care of himself.

Though I've always supported my tennis with plenty of weight and aerobic training, It's always seemed like I suffer more aches and pains - including tennis-elbow, shoulder pain, sore feet, etc. - than nearly all of the far less conditioned guys I play with. Whereas they could play three or four days in a row without problem, I struggled after just two. Playing three days straight would leave me feeling like I had the flu.

Within the past year my energy has plummeted. ..To the point where I needed to take a full 30 min. nap (sometimes in my car) before taking to the court, otherwise I'd be very sluggish w/ slow reflexes. It became a problem with work where I needed to take a catnap before driving back from account visits. ..So off to the doc I went thinking I have lyme disease, mono or something more scary. The doc ordered a bunch of blood work. To my surprise, my T level was 196 which is about the average for a 75 year old. To rule out the affects of a virus or lab variability my doctor ordered three more T tests over several weeks. They all showed similar levels. ..Then a brain and scrotal MRI to rule out pituitary issues and testicular cancer. ..Both were fine. So the diagnoses was primary hypogonadism and a script for Androgel 1.62% was proposed. Fearful of the side effects, I was very reluctant. But the doc informed me that leaving it untreated meant risking osteoporosis, cognitive decline, and heart problems later in life. The goal is to raise my T to the 400-600 range. ..So I agreed and have been taking it for about 3 weeks now.

I bring this up here because the affect on my tennis has been terrific. ..Not because I'm playing with greater strength, or endurance (though both have improved slightly) but rather b/c I'm no longer plagued by these constant aches and pains. My shoulder pain, TE, and foot pain have improved considerably. ..Plus, my overall recovery time is MUCH improved. I'm able to play consecutive days without feeling increasingly weary.

So if any of this sounds like you, it may be worth your while to ask your doc for a T check. ..But don't rush into it b/c there are side-affects, plus it's likely a lifelong commitment and can be expensive.

SystemicAnomaly 10-05-2012 01:29 PM

It is possible that low testosterone levels are related to a decrease in the production of Pregnenolone and DHEA from the adrenal glands. These hormone levels usually peak in the mid 20s and then drop off as we age. Supplementation of Preg and DHEA have been prescribed for some health issues. However, I believe, there has not been much study done on long-term supplementation of these hormones.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dhea/NS_patient-dhea

Probably the best way to test for Preg/DHEA levels is to test for the levels of DHEA Sulfate (DHEAS) in the body. This can achieved with either testing of blood/plasma or saliva. Testosterone can also be check with blood or saliva testing. Not certain if one is considered significantly more reliable than the other. Here is the view of a doctor with an integrative medicine bias:

http://www.drmarcantel.com/hormone-testing-saliva-or-serum-blood-test

If you decide to use Preg and DHEA supplements, be sure to have your DHEAS and testosterone levels checked periodically. While many of these supplements will not affect affect Preg, DHEA and testosterone levels in the blood very much, some will have a very profound effect on some users.

Hormone delivery thru the digestion system is not a natural process. Many supplement users will derive very little benefit from ingesting many of the DHEA products on the market because of this. Some versions of DHEA supplements will be assimilated better than others. Sublingual Pregnenolone is one way to effective increase Preg, DHEA and testosterone levels. DHEA or Preg creams can also be very effective.

Care should be taken to ensure that testosterone levels, esp DHT levels, do not get too high. Very high T or DHT levels can result in prostate issues. Here is a bit more on saliva testing. (Note that the 2nd link is a manufacturer who is pushing their own testosterone products).

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/saliva...renal-hormones
http://www.checkmytestosterone.com/saliva-hormone-test

SystemicAnomaly 10-05-2012 01:36 PM

Caveat: If you decide to try a sublingual Pregnenlone product start off with a 10 mg product rather than a 25 mg or 50 mg product. Have your DHEAS (and testosterone) levels checked after 3-6 months to see if a higher supplement level is warranted. It is probably best to keep your levels below the normal levels for a 30 year old.

El Diablo 10-05-2012 01:44 PM

I think SA has an important point; that testosterone goes down with age probably is beneficial to longevity. A friend of mine went on androgel in his 50s after a divorce (yeeehahhhh!) and a few years later was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. He now his lesions in bones and is expected not to live long. Androgens promote the growth and spread of prostate cancers, which ordinarily tend to spread or grow quite slowly in men over 50.

LeeD 10-05-2012 01:56 PM

While it's true that taking PED's and testosterone is one of the best ways to improve performance in old farts like myself (I'm 63), I fear they will take away my TourdeFrance trophy if I get caught.

bad_call 10-05-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo (Post 6937659)
I think SA has an important point; that testosterone goes down with age probably is beneficial to longevity. A friend of mine went on androgel in his 50s after a divorce (yeeehahhhh!) and a few years later was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. He now his lesions in bones and is expected not to live long. Androgens promote the growth and spread of prostate cancers, which ordinarily tend to spread or grow quite slowly in men over 50.

dang that sux...but after hearing the lengthy warning (TV commercial) not surprised.

r2473 10-05-2012 02:07 PM

Could all you damn old people just start dying faster and stop taking all of the social security and medicare money?

Your usefulness is at an end :)

LeeD 10-05-2012 02:20 PM

THANK YOU VERY MUCH !
I've always believed that, which is why I led the life I did.
But as you get older, you start to think that SocialSecurity owes you something, so you gotta take it for a while.

bad_call 10-05-2012 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r2473 (Post 6937704)
Could all you damn old people just start dying faster and stop taking all of the social security and medicare money?

Your usefulness is at an end :)

drink beer - it does a body good and it's all natural. :)

Lil123 10-05-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo (Post 6937659)
I think SA has an important point; that testosterone goes down with age probably is beneficial to longevity. A friend of mine went on androgel in his 50s after a divorce (yeeehahhhh!) and a few years later was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. He now his lesions in bones and is expected not to live long. Androgens promote the growth and spread of prostate cancers, which ordinarily tend to spread or grow quite slowly in men over 50.

A sad story to be sure and one that illustrates the importance of having the prostate checked (PSA and the old fashioned way) before undergoing T therapy. ..That said, the studies are pretty compelling: Where no prostate cancer exists before Testosterone replacement Therapy, there is no evidence that T therapy will cause prostate cancer. ..Allowing very low T levels to go untreated IS highly correlated with osteoporosis, cognitive functioning, depression, energy level (inc. one's inclination to exercise), etc..

..In my own case, I saw Univ. of Pennsylvania primary care physician, endocrinologist, and urologist And had a brain and testicle MRI before commencing with the Androgel. ..I definitely didn't enter into this lightly as those who would simply seek out some whacky anti-age doc. My goal isn't to persuade people to undergo T supplementation, but rather to encourage those with similar symptoms to discuss Low T with their docs.

slowfox 10-05-2012 05:26 PM

This is totally gonna sound like trolling, but nevertheless... I read somewhere that watching porn increases a man's testosterone levels. I have no empirical evidence myself, so for the sake of science I will watch some "videos" before my next match and then see how I do on the courts. :)

Sentinel 10-06-2012 04:44 AM

Unless your hips are growing wide and you've started growing teats, no need to get your testo checked. :D j/k

^ Acco to a poster here (a month or so back), watching pron will increase testo, being with children and animals will decrease it.

sureshs 10-06-2012 10:38 AM

I think you can easily gauge fall in testesterone levels by observing if there is significant shrinkage of your tennis balls.

WildVolley 10-06-2012 11:45 AM

Anabolic steroids are definitely good for putting on muscles and reducing recovery time from exercises. It is also possible that some anabolic steroids are safer than testosterone, or at least have fewer side-effects.

Lil123 10-06-2012 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 6939399)
.. It is also possible that some anabolic steroids are safer than testosterone, or at least have fewer side-effects.

I think this claim merits some scrutiny. Testosterone replacement therapy has been in use for 60 years. And remember, the goal of legitimate TRT is to return a persons t-level to the normal range (300 -1080 ng/dl), it is not to raise the levels beyond this range for the purposes of improving athletic performance. Clinical trials have validated the safety and efficacy of supplemental testosterone. I don't believe the same can be said of ANY anabolic steroid.

WildVolley 10-06-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil123 (Post 6939538)
I think this claim merits some scrutiny. Testosterone replacement therapy has been in use for 60 years. And remember, the goal of legitimate TRT is to return a persons t-level to the normal range (300 -1080 ng/dl), it is not to raise the levels beyond this range for the purposes of improving athletic performance. Clinical trials have validated the safety and efficacy of supplemental testosterone. I don't believe the same can be said of ANY anabolic steroid.

No doubt that testosterone has had better clinical trials, but this has primarily been for political reasons. Anabolic steroids have been demonized because of the athletic advantage they confer, not health effects.

Many anabolic steroids have been designed to avoid the negative effects of Test. It would be good to study whether or not this was successful.

SystemicAnomaly 10-06-2012 04:21 PM

^ Just to be clear... Pregnenolone and DHEA are steroid hormones and do not fall under the classification of anabolic-androgen steroids (AAS), better known as anabolic steroids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo (Post 6937659)
I think SA has an important point; that testosterone goes down with age probably is beneficial to longevity. A friend of mine went on androgel in his 50s after a divorce (yeeehahhhh!) and a few years later was diagnosed with metastatic prostate cancer. He now his lesions in bones and is expected not to live long. Androgens promote the growth and spread of prostate cancers, which ordinarily tend to spread or grow quite slowly in men over 50.

While it is not really known if using supplements to increase Preg, DHEA and Testostorone to 25-30 yo levels is wise, allowing testosterone (and possibly other hormones) to drop to very low levels does not seems wise either.

As the OP has pointed out, low T levels are associated with dementia, osteoporosis, depression, fatigue and other maladies. This is something that my father is dealing with right now. Once of his doctors decided to inhibit his T levels in order to keep his PSA levels in check. In the past year, it has become apparent that the cure/treatment is worse than the (prostate) problem. He is now showing very significant signs of dementia, clouded cognition, osteo, depression, and severe fatigue.

Perhaps it would be better to allow higher T levels but inhibit the conversion of T to DHT. Some possible ways to inhibit DHT is saw palmetto, Brazil nuts (selenium), and lycopene (cooked tomatoes, ketchup, etc). May also be helpful: nettle root, beta sitosterol, pumpkin seed and minoxidil or finasteride.
.

SystemicAnomaly 10-07-2012 06:32 PM

I had previously indicated that quercetin might possibly reduce DHT levels. It is often co-adminstered with finasteride. While many sources indicate that quercetin reduces or limits DHT production, there is at least one study that indicates that it actually causes an increase in DHT levels. Not certain what to make of this. Has anyone looked into this apparent contradiction?

Zinc gluconate and other zinc compounds appear to play a part in DHT production and prostate health. Zinc supposedly can raise testosterone levels but limit its conversion to DHT. However, it is possible that very high levels of zinc may actually increase the risk of prostate cancer. It is difficult to say what the optimum level of zinc intake should be in light of this. Here are a couple of sources that discuss the role of zinc and zinc compounds with regards to DHT production/inhibition and prostate health. I will leave it to you to seek out more scholarly sources if you are so inclined.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/304010-prostate-gland-health-zinc
http://www.hairlossbuddy.com/22/zinc-and-healthy-hair

r2473 10-08-2012 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 6939399)
Anabolic steroids are definitely good for putting on muscles and reducing recovery time from exercises. It is also possible that some anabolic steroids are safer than testosterone, or at least have fewer side-effects.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/insidethelife8.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/insidethelife9.htm

bad_call 10-08-2012 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 6939746)
^ Just to be clear... Pregnenolone and DHEA are steroid hormones and do not fall under the classification of anabolic-androgen steroids (AAS), better known as anabolic steroids.



While it is not really known if using supplements to increase Preg, DHEA and Testostorone to 25-30 yo levels is wise, allowing testosterone (and possibly other hormones) to drop to very low levels does not seems wise either.

As the OP has pointed out, low T levels are associated with dementia, osteoporosis, depression, fatigue and other maladies. This is something that my father is dealing with right now. Once of his doctors decided to inhibit his T levels in order to keep his PSA levels in check. In the past year, it has become apparent that the cure/treatment is worse than the (prostate) problem. He is now showing very significant signs of dementia, clouded cognition, osteo, depression, and severe fatigue.

Perhaps it would be better to allow higher T levels but inhibit the conversion of T to DHT. Some possible ways to inhibit DHT is saw palmetto, Brazil nuts (selenium), and lycopene (cooked tomatoes, ketchup, etc). May also be helpful: nettle root, beta sitosterol, pumpkin seed and minoxidil or finasteride.
.

a few studies on warding off dementia...

http://theintelhub.com/2011/08/20/ma...n-researchers/


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