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-   -   What's the next step, if I find current n.gut/poly hybrid too powerful (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442168)

lawrencejin 10-05-2012 03:09 PM

What's the next step, if I find current n.gut/poly hybrid too powerful
 
Hey guys,

After reading some excellent reviews on natural gut / poly hybrids, I decided to break open my thin wallet and try it out. To avoid investing too much into it, I decided to go with a pre-packaged Klip X-Plosive 17 (Klip Legend & Klip K-Boom), strung on my Dunlop 4D 100 at 57/52lb.

I have an eastern forehand grip and one-handed backhand. I'm a hard hitter but hit mostly flat, and thus I am not a serious string breaker. I do go for hard spin serves, which is usually how I break my strings. I typically come from poly/synthetics or full bed of synthetics at around 52-57lb range (you can tell I'm not too fussy with my string set-ups).

Unfortunately it's been raining a lot here in Ithaca, so I could only clock in 3 hours with my new set-up. My initial impression concurs with many reviews on this forum: comfortable, powerful, and lots of spin. I like everything about it except that it's just a bit too powerful for me. My groundies were OK but deep volleys suffered. I would definitely like to try this set-up again next time round, but I'd like to know what I can tweak to lower power a little.

1. Should I try increasing tension for one/both of the strings? I'm curious to try natural gut strung at 60lb+, but I'm concerned about either (i) increasing poly tension beyond low 50's or (ii) having a large tension gap between mains and crosses.

2. Should I try a less powerful poly as a cross?

Any thoughts and inputs are appreciated. For now, I'll spend more time with it and try to get used to its high power, and if I can't adjust well I may add in some string savers to increase tension a little.

filphil 10-05-2012 04:37 PM

Do you pre-stretch your natural gut? I've found it deadens the bed slightly. Also you have the option of decreasing the gauge of your string which will help bring the power down(go from 17 to 16).

finalfantasy7 10-05-2012 04:43 PM

A lot of people have thr Nat gut around 7lbs higher than poly- seen a few people on here have stated this.

You could try a different poly, have you tried co-focus? A lot of people on here including myself really like nat/co-focus hybrid

Have you tried using gut as a cross with poly main? That should dampen the power

lawrencejin 10-05-2012 06:37 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions :) The n.gut wasn't pre-stretched, so that's definitely something I'll try next. Using thicker gauge is also a nice idea, and I do recall reading many great reviews on co-focus as a cross. I guess that pretty much sums up what to tweak for the next string job:

1. Pre-stretch the natural gut
2. Use 16 gauge strings
3. Natural gut/Co-focus at 60/52lb

My Klip Legend gut started fraying after just two kick serves. That was a little disheartening, although I think (hope) it's just the outer coating that's coming off, and the strings will last many more hours. Next time I will try Pacific Classic or Tonic+.

filphil 10-05-2012 06:47 PM

I would minimize your variables. Start with the pre-stretch and thicker gauge but use the same tension and string bed. The tension will inevitably go down. Keep track of your tension if possible and note when you like the depth and feel of the balls your hitting for your next string job.

lawrencejin 10-05-2012 08:37 PM

Sound advice, thank you. You're right that ideally I should take small steps and change only one/few variables at a time to properly determine my optimal n.gut/poly hybrid. What makes me hesitate a little is the high cost associated with slow and rigorous experimentation. As much as I love the n.gut/poly set-up, I am inclined to just give it one more shot before switching back to cheaper poly/s.gut.

Still, I think I will follow your good advice and only change (1) and (2) in my second and final (for now) attempt at n.gut/poly hybrid. I may leave Co-focus and higher n.gut tensions for future investigations when I'm a bit richer.

TimothyO 10-06-2012 03:55 AM

I've had the same problem with some frames.

1. Use 16g mains and crosses

2. Use the stiffest poly cross that still feels good

3. Pre-stretch the gut

I'm using 4G and it's very low powered and feels very comfortable in an open pattern.

lawrencejin 10-06-2012 07:38 AM

Thanks TimO. I do remember reading your nice review on VS/4G hybrid in another thread -- at the time I overlooked your reiteration of its low-power and added control! Sounds like an ideal set-up for me. Definitely in my list of to-do's for future experimentation.

xFullCourtTenniSx 10-07-2012 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawrencejin (Post 6938258)
Thanks for all the suggestions :) The n.gut wasn't pre-stretched, so that's definitely something I'll try next. Using thicker gauge is also a nice idea, and I do recall reading many great reviews on co-focus as a cross. I guess that pretty much sums up what to tweak for the next string job:

1. Pre-stretch the natural gut
2. Use 16 gauge strings
3. Natural gut/Co-focus at 60/52lb

My Klip Legend gut started fraying after just two kick serves. That was a little disheartening, although I think (hope) it's just the outer coating that's coming off, and the strings will last many more hours. Next time I will try Pacific Classic or Tonic+.

Fraying is, and always shall be bad. Depending on how bad it is, it could last a while or be on the verge of breaking.

It's probably due to your wet weather. I normally get ~8 hours and during one misty night I popped my strings after only 3 hours.

Dreamcastin 10-08-2012 11:46 PM

if your a flat hitter with an eastern grip you should just use full gut at high tension or a cheap syn if you cant stand the cost. if your not a string breaker gut is cheaper in the long run though. my 2 cents.

anubis 10-09-2012 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawrencejin (Post 6937923)
Hey guys,

After reading some excellent reviews on natural gut / poly hybrids, I decided to break open my thin wallet and try it out. To avoid investing too much into it, I decided to go with a pre-packaged Klip X-Plosive 17 (Klip Legend & Klip K-Boom), strung on my Dunlop 4D 100 at 57/52lb.

Whoooaaa there, nelly. 57 mains and 52 crosses? Are you absolutely certain that you're getting no racquet frame warping with that setup? Next time you cut out your strings, measure (in CM) the length of the center of the main area, and then measure the length of the center of the crosses area (so that the cross of those two measurements mark the exact center of the hoop). that's your racquets natural dimensions.

Now, string your racquet as normal. measure the same areas. It shouldn't deviate much if properly strung. No more than a half CM in either direction... and if left overnight, it should equalize and return to its normal shape.

I really suspect that your string jobs, being deviated by 5 lbs difference on the crosses, is warping your frame.


but I digress... if your problem is "too much power", then don't look to the strings, look to the tension. Use the stringway tension adviser (http://www.stringway-nl.com/en/TAonline/calc.php), plug in your dimensions and string pattern. It will tell you what the difference should be between the mains and the crosses. It's usually different for each racquet. For instance on mine, it recommends the crosses to be 2 lbs greater than the mains (to maintain the hoop integrity). for others, it may recommend that the crosses be 5 or 6 lbs tighter than the mains.

take that figure and raise it depending on the tension you want. If they recommend 55/57, then note the 2 lbs difference and then string @ 60/62.

Bottom line is I suspect you need the tension to be higher than what it is now, but it should be raised in a manner that maintains the integrity of your hoop.

TimothyO 10-09-2012 07:29 AM

Quote:

I really suspect that your string jobs, being deviated by 5 lbs difference on the crosses, is warping your frame.
No it's not. Have tried it myself. No problem.

Now, depending on the main, cross, and pattern, you could get a crappy string bed. It all depends.

But stringing stiff/shorter poly crosses lower than soft/longer gut mains is a good thing.


Quote:

if your problem is "too much power", then don't look to the strings, look to the tension
It depends on the frame. In a small head simply upping the tension to reduce power can rapidly lead to a dead feeling string-bed, especially in a gut/poly hybrid. It can also increase the friction between the mains and crosses which defeats the purpose of a gut/poly hybrid. Much better to get a stiffer cross and keep the tension AND friction as low as possible.

lawrencejin 10-09-2012 08:25 AM

Dreamcastin: I've also considered going full gut at high tension, but what held me back was that though I hit flat ground strokes, I have heavy, spinny serves which break strings from time to time. I'm not a serious string breaker, but a moderate one, for the lack of a better description. And being a student I really couldn't cash out for full gut and take the risk haha.

Anubis: Thanks for the concern. I did a careful comparison with my spare racket (with 'normal' tensions), and my two frames appear identical. As TimO said, I'm hesitant to increase poly's tension as it could make my small frame feel boardy.

Update: After clocking in several more hours, its playing characteristics haven't changed much; it's still comfortable, spin-friendly, and marginally too powerful. Strings are fraying and notching everywhere, but no immediate signs of breakage.

I've started to adjust to this powerful set-up. Power and spin are really spoiling me with serves, but for some ground strokes and volleys I find myself shortening my swings to keep the ball in. Not sure if this is a good thing. My match performance seems about the same, as extra pop and spin on my serves are making up for the slightly lesser volleys and ground strokes. One thing for sure, though, is that natural gut in the hybrid makes it feel amazing and comfortable. Quite a novel experience.

TennisCJC 10-09-2012 09:19 AM

You could try a less powerful main. I use gut/poly, syn gut/poly, and multi/poly for about the last 4-5 months and like all 3. The gut/poly is the most powerful, multi/poly next, and the least powerful is syn gut/poly.

Also, you could try 15L gauge gut with a 16g poly cross for less power but I would only do this if your racket is an open string pattern. I would not try going up in tension on the poly more than a lb or 2. Personally, I don't do poly over 52 lbs on a true constant pull machine. Also, I would not go over a 5 lbs difference between your main and poly tension - you are using 57/52 which is my suggested max 5 lb difference.

For me, the gut/poly plays well for about 15+ hours and then poly is kind of too dead and gut is fraying badly.

The syn gut/poly plays well for about 8+ hours and then the syn gut will snap or seems flat.

But, for the $, I like the syn gut/poly. It is crisp, spinny, gives more pop than poly mains, and the syn gut breaks about the time the poly goes dead. I string myself and can afford to play a new set of strings about every 7-14 days with this setup. A new string bed always feels good.

If $ is of no concern, then gut/poly wins.

lawrencejin 10-09-2012 09:50 AM

Thanks, CJC. Like you, I also cap my poly tension at 52lb. I was actually very curious about s.gut/poly hybrid that you mentioned. I will give it a shot with my Forten Sweet 16 and Cyber Blue 17 I have at home, at 55lb/52lb. It'd be fun to compare with the more typical poly/s.gut set-up.

I'll wait for my n.gut/poly to snap, and then move on to the same set-up with thicker gauge. I plan to retain n.gut/poly set-up for my main racket, and experiment with s.gut/poly for my spare.

Just curious, what strings and tensions worked best for your s.gut/poly set-up? From my distant memory I recall reading on these forums that s.gut/poly hybrid can be quite string-sensitive.

netguy 10-09-2012 09:56 AM

Co-Focus mains/Gut crosses might work for you....It's what I have in one of my 4D 100 now...In the other one, I have Gut/Co-Poly and it's too powerful for me.

TimothyO 10-09-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisCJC (Post 6944195)
You could try a less powerful main. I use gut/poly, syn gut/poly, and multi/poly for about the last 4-5 months and like all 3. The gut/poly is the most powerful, multi/poly next, and the least powerful is syn gut/poly.

Also, you could try 15L gauge gut with a 16g poly cross for less power but I would only do this if your racket is an open string pattern. I would not try going up in tension on the poly more than a lb or 2. Personally, I don't do poly over 52 lbs on a true constant pull machine. Also, I would not go over a 5 lbs difference between your main and poly tension - you are using 57/52 which is my suggested max 5 lb difference.

For me, the gut/poly plays well for about 15+ hours and then poly is kind of too dead and gut is fraying badly.

The syn gut/poly plays well for about 8+ hours and then the syn gut will snap or seems flat.

But, for the $, I like the syn gut/poly. It is crisp, spinny, gives more pop than poly mains, and the syn gut breaks about the time the poly goes dead. I string myself and can afford to play a new set of strings about every 7-14 days with this setup. A new string bed always feels good.

If $ is of no concern, then gut/poly wins.

Excellent analysis. That's why I call it gut/poly hell. It feels so great but can be expensive.


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