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bt johnson 10-07-2012 09:13 PM

Serve help- Hey TT
 
I am having some problems getting my left foot further in the court on my serve. Any suggestions besides throwing the ball further in the court? All other critiques are welcome as well. Thanks

http://youtu.be/Q7wHnj91GO4

http://youtu.be/MlF3tFH64yM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-3E...=UL1Z-3E4vNiCE

SystemicAnomaly 10-08-2012 12:51 AM



Take a look at the action of your right leg. It kicks off to the right. Instead, your right foot should kick toward the back fence (not the side fence). Will Hamilton of FYB talks about this in his serve progression. You should be able to see it in the serve motion of nearly all modern elite servers.

Also notice the direction that your left foot is pointing on your ad-side serves (in your 1st link) when you land. It is pointing way off to the left. Notice that Maria, in the image above, gets well into the court when she lands and her left foot is pointing, more or less, in the direction of her serve. With your right leg kicking off to the right and your left foot landing off to the left, you are often falling off to the left. Your leg drive should be up and forward -- you should be falling in the direction of your serve, not to the left.

Your action is an indication that your lower body is rotating too much late in the serve motion. If you kick your right leg back (as seen in both photos above), you might be able to drive up and forward more with your left foot landing in front of the baseline (and pointing in the direction of your serve when you land). The right leg kicking back will serve as a counterbalance and will also limit your lower body rotation after you have transferred your kinetic energy to your upper body, arm and racket.

sansaephanh 10-08-2012 01:15 AM

^what he said

LeeD 10-08-2012 11:41 AM

All you're doing in the first vid is a lazy 80% serve and falling off to your left.
If you want to add the last 15 mph, you need to end up, after hitting the serve, about 18" - 3' inside NML.
Like throw a ball. If you stand in place, you cannot throw far OR hard. You need to get your body moving forwards as well as your hand and rackethead.
Think...if you standing on the ground, throw, would your throw go as far as if you stood on a train moving forwards at 10 mph, then you throw?

WildVolley 10-08-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bt johnson (Post 6941765)
I am having some problems getting my left foot further in the court on my serve. Any suggestions besides throwing the ball further in the court? All other critiques are welcome as well. Thanks

Why are you against tossing the ball farther into the court?

It would be nice to see your serve from the side. Next time you video, video from both the back and the side to see if you are getting your hip out into the court during the windup.

LeeD 10-08-2012 12:04 PM

OP is copying pro level warmup serves before they start hitting the serves for real.

xFullCourtTenniSx 10-08-2012 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bt johnson (Post 6941765)
I am having some problems getting my left foot further in the court on my serve. Any suggestions besides throwing the ball further in the court? All other critiques are welcome as well. Thanks

http://youtu.be/Q7wHnj91GO4

http://youtu.be/MlF3tFH64yM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-3E...=UL1Z-3E4vNiCE

Why are you against throwing the ball further into the court?

Cause #1
Toss is bad. It's inconsistent and your body is off balance trying to compensate for it. First off, fix your toss. I'm not an expert on tossing as I also suffer from bad tosses.

Cause #2
Your leg action (while you have a good knee bend), is nonexistent. Part of getting your body to land that far into the court is really having your legs explode you up and into the ball. It want to sort of attack the ball with your motion. But all of this is pointless until you fix your toss first.

And I'd rather land closer (if not on) the baseline unless I'm rushing the net. If they hit short, I can get to it anyway. But if they hit deep, I can respond better. I would stumble 2-3 feet forward into the court after hitting a serve because I was also off balance when hitting my serves apparently (though nobody ever really noticed so I never really fixed it until I tried new things aimed at getting my goal of landing cleanly on the baseline).

3fees 10-08-2012 02:06 PM

Nothing wrong with your serve,,your feet staying planted as along as possible is good,,nice 2nd serve-can use as 1st serve too.

if you want your left foot to hop into the court first,,,

1.) slide your back foot right next to your left foot with knees bent-this is called a semi step--australian tennis school teaches this.
2.) as your coming out of back scratch--your knees unflex-like jumping up diagonally to hit the ball
3.) Ball toss just slightly in front of the base line

As you jump to hit the ball you'll land on the left foot in the tennis court, for a lefty right foot lands first and reverse the semi-step.

thats the basic's,,it has also been called the "Windmill Serve",,the book I read said this movement is what gave Mister Roscoe Tanner his tremendous speed on his serves,,actually--he slid his left foot over the court-very low-(continous movement) and then as he hit the ball right foot hopped on to the court---into ready position in one motion-feet even-ready to go---.......weight moving forward towards the target is key or its another lost serve. You have to trust yourself on Mister tanners serve technique--like riding a bicycle for the first time-try it.....

:)

LeeD 10-08-2012 02:10 PM

I just hate this thread....
OP has a good motion, fast swing, and just stands there as he hits the ball.
He can hit into the lower 120's pretty easily, if he jumps upwards and into the court using his legs....but he doesn't.
His serve CAN be 5.5, but he's too lazy to use his legs.
Sad, sad.

bt johnson 10-08-2012 05:39 PM

I am not against tossing the ball further in the court at all. I noticed that I was not doing it as I watched the video's myself

bt johnson 10-08-2012 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 6941896)


Take a look at the action of your right leg. It kicks off to the right. Instead, your right foot should kick toward the back fence (not the side fence). Will Hamilton of FYB talks about this in his serve progression. You should be able to see it in the serve motion of nearly all modern elite servers.

Also notice the direction that your left foot is pointing on your ad-side serves (in your 1st link) when you land. It is pointing way off to the left. Notice that Maria, in the image above, gets well into the court when she lands and her left foot is pointing, more or less, in the direction of her serve. With your right leg kicking off to the right and your left foot landing off to the left, you are often falling off to the left. Your leg drive should be up and forward -- you should be falling in the direction of your serve, not to the left.

Your action is an indication that your lower body is rotating too much late in the serve motion. If you kick your right leg back (as seen in both photos above), you might be able to drive up and forward more with your left foot landing in front of the baseline (and pointing in the direction of your serve when you land). The right leg kicking back will serve as a counterbalance and will also limit your lower body rotation after you have transferred your kinetic energy to your upper body, arm and racket.

This is great information and I will use it tomorrow and post some more pics. Thank you

bt johnson 10-08-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 6941896)


Take a look at the action of your right leg. It kicks off to the right. Instead, your right foot should kick toward the back fence (not the side fence). Will Hamilton of FYB talks about this in his serve progression. You should be able to see it in the serve motion of nearly all modern elite servers.

Also notice the direction that your left foot is pointing on your ad-side serves (in your 1st link) when you land. It is pointing way off to the left. Notice that Maria, in the image above, gets well into the court when she lands and her left foot is pointing, more or less, in the direction of her serve. With your right leg kicking off to the right and your left foot landing off to the left, you are often falling off to the left. Your leg drive should be up and forward -- you should be falling in the direction of your serve, not to the left.

Your action is an indication that your lower body is rotating too much late in the serve motion. If you kick your right leg back (as seen in both photos above), you might be able to drive up and forward more with your left foot landing in front of the baseline (and pointing in the direction of your serve when you land). The right leg kicking back will serve as a counterbalance and will also limit your lower body rotation after you have transferred your kinetic energy to your upper body, arm and racket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xFullCourtTenniSx (Post 6942733)
Why are you against throwing the ball further into the court?

Cause #1
Toss is bad. It's inconsistent and your body is off balance trying to compensate for it. First off, fix your toss. I'm not an expert on tossing as I also suffer from bad tosses.

Cause #2
Your leg action (while you have a good knee bend), is nonexistent. Part of getting your body to land that far into the court is really having your legs explode you up and into the ball. It want to sort of attack the ball with your motion. But all of this is pointless until you fix your toss first.

And I'd rather land closer (if not on) the baseline unless I'm rushing the net. If they hit short, I can get to it anyway. But if they hit deep, I can respond better. I would stumble 2-3 feet forward into the court after hitting a serve because I was also off balance when hitting my serves apparently (though nobody ever really noticed so I never really fixed it until I tried new things aimed at getting my goal of landing cleanly on the baseline).

This is the only feedback I disagree with so far. I do not see how you can say that I have a bad toss

LeeD 10-08-2012 05:50 PM

Toss is bad because if you allow it to drop, it would hit the baseline. A good toss for a strong server, and you are definetely a candidate, lands between 12 to 20" inside the baseline, forcing you to use your legs to drive up and forwards into the ball, landing YOU 18" to 3' inside your baseline.

bt johnson 10-08-2012 06:24 PM

Here is the deal: I started filming the video's while warming up so yes a lot of them are warm up serves. Anyhow that is not the point. LEE D I can assure you I am not lazy. If I was lazy would I video serves and then ask for feedback about how to get better? I am willing and open to learning and using the knowledge I get to make my serve better (excluding changing my ball toss). So here is the back drop on me. I played a fairly high level of tennis until the age of 20 and I am now 33. I picked up a tennis racquet for the first time since the age of 20 back in March of the current year. I have moved to a new city and tennis is HUGE here and I am trying to get my game back. I appreciate more than y'all know about all of your insight and feedback and I am looking forward to posting more video's of me trying to improve.

WildVolley 10-08-2012 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bt johnson (Post 6943175)
I am not against tossing the ball further in the court at all. I noticed that I was not doing it as I watched the video's myself

I misunderstood your original post.

As LeeD noted, your serve looks like a warm-up. I'm not a fan of your high toss and long pause. The downside of the high toss is that accuracy is compromised, it really is more difficult to keep the toss consistent the higher you throw the ball. The benefit is that it allows you to take a long pause at trophy if that is what you like.

I'd advise taking at least a foot off the height of the toss and trying to increase your rhythm. You won't need to chase the ball as much if you do.

LeeD 10-08-2012 06:43 PM

:):)
Can't help someone who won't listen.
Problem here is not the form or technique of your toss, the problem is the LOCATION of the toss.
Like I noted, your serves IN THE VIDS look like warmup serves....no legs whatsoever, just an arm motion. That is what you posted, that is what we see, that is what we judge.
Now if you actually serve 125 and play at 5.5, we can believe that, but it's not what you showed in your vid.
You show a warmup motion, feet planted behind the baseline, little to no leg upward thrust.

bt johnson 10-08-2012 07:40 PM

I am very much open to listening and I really do appreciate the advice. I never knew I had such a high toss until well today. When I looked at the video's again I do see a higher toss then I would have anticipated, actually much higher. I recently switched racquets (within the last 2 weeks) to the Wilson BLX BLADE tour from the Babolat PSLTD 2009 version. I guess since I hit so many serves over the summer with the PSTLD that I somehow found a way to compensate for my high toss. I have been double faulting some with the Blade and hardly ever double faulted with the PSLTD. The main reason that I posted the video is because of the double faulting but looks like there was a reason and it was not just the racquet haha. Even those serves in the video were taken while warming up they are pretty much the same as I would hit in a match. When I do chase after the toss going into the court ( usually by accident) I do hit a flat serve that does not get returned very often. Sp is the overall consensus that I take a foot off the toss and throw further in the court?

bt johnson 10-08-2012 07:52 PM

side note: the league that I play in has some very solid depth and the players for the most part can read the ball toss. I have been working on hitting all my serves with the same toss but I guess I need to learn to walk before running

SystemicAnomaly 10-08-2012 08:07 PM

^ Note that most pros do not use only 1 ball toss -- despite what some coaches will tell you. Sampras has said that he has 2 basic tosses. Elite players will often have 2, sometimes 3, different tosses. However, the difference between those 2 or 3 tosses are probably much less for elite servers than it is for us mere mortals.

You don't need to disguise the fact that you are going to hit your first serve flatter than your 2nd serve. Instead of disguising the type of serve you are going to hit with the ball toss, disguise the placement of your serve.

bt johnson 10-08-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SystemicAnomaly (Post 6943406)
^ Note that most pros do not use only 1 ball toss -- despite what some coaches will tell you. Sampras has said that he has 2 basic tosses. Elite players will often have 2, sometimes 3, different tosses. However, the difference between those 2 or 3 tosses are probably much less for elite servers than it is for us mere mortals.

You don't need to disguise the fact that you are going to hit your first serve flatter than your 2nd serve. Instead of disguising the type of serve you are going to hit with the ball toss, disguise the placement of your serve.

Very very interesting. Disguise placement in which way? I know that Johnny Mac, Sampras and FED hide the ball toss with the shoulder but what exactly do you mean about hiding placement?


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