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-   -   What is the definition of G.O.A.T (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442404)

The Dark Knight 10-08-2012 11:35 AM

What is the definition of G.O.A.T
 
We all use the term GOAT however it has become painfully obvious that the term
Means different things to different people.

I'm calling on a bi partisan convention to try and come forward with some sort of unified definition of this very vague term.

If we can do that workout schewing the parameters towards ones favorite player then I think the debate will end once and for all......highly doubtful but at least it will be interesting to try.

Any takers?

SoBad 10-08-2012 11:40 AM

The definition is complex - there are many different factors involved.

No1e 10-08-2012 11:44 AM

I think when people talk about the GOAT, the performances at majors are the most important. Though Roger holds many other amazing records, it's my impression that it is his 17 majors that set himself apart from all other great players.

No of weeks as world no.1, year-end no.1 and WTFs are the next things that count, I think.

The Dark Knight 10-08-2012 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No1e (Post 6942642)
I think when people talk about the GOAT, the performances at majors are the most important. Though Roger holds many other amazing records, it's my impression that it is his 17 majors that set himself apart from all other great players.

No of weeks as world no.1, year-end no.1 and WTFs are the next things that count, I think.

That would work if you only wanted to name Federer as the greatestest of all time But that wouldn't really work for anyone else....because then you would have to also say according to your definition that Emerson was greater than Laver.

You would also have to say that Margaret court is better than Graf,Williams , Navratilova , evert.

Also you would have to say that laver Borg and Nadal are all equal.....and that Emerson was better than all three of them.

So I don't think your definition would really work. Do you?

Cup8489 10-08-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight (Post 6942650)
That would work if you only wanted to name Federer as the greatestest of all time But that wouldn't really work for anyone else....because then you would have to also say according to your definition that Emerson was greater than Laver.

You would also have to say that Margaret court is better than Graf,Williams , Navratilova , evert.

Also you would have to say that laver Borg and Nadal are all equal.....and that Emerson was better than all three of them.

So I don't think your definition would really work. Do you?

Youre simplifying it. Laver is considered better because of the two CYGS, and he turned pro.

Navratilova is considered great because she had to contend with a woman almost on her level in Evert, not true for Court. Serena is mentioned because of the levels she's reached in her tennis, not just because of her accolades.

Borg and Nadal are virtually equal in most people's minds.

NadalDramaQueen 10-08-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight (Post 6942650)
That would work if you only wanted to name Federer as the greatestest of all time But that wouldn't really work for anyone else....because then you would have to also say according to your definition that Emerson was greater than Laver.

You would also have to say that Margaret court is better than Graf,Williams , Navratilova , evert.

Also you would have to say that laver Borg and Nadal are all equal.....and that Emerson was better than all three of them.

So I don't think your definition would really work. Do you?

It works for players after a certain time period, when conditions (full fields, etc.) are similar enough to rank each major win on equal footing.

A lot of people like to include longevity, but I've always been impressed with the players who were able to create their own eras, where they were clearly the best over a period of some years.

I would think a high major count, and dominating a period (at least a period of two years where you are the best) are minimum requirements.

Alchemy-Z 10-08-2012 11:54 AM

for me

GOAT= a nickname you give a player that you believe will create records so unbreakable that no one in the history of the sport could ever over-take them.

so for me it's Laver because of the 2 "true grandslams" seem so untouchable.

Fed as awesome as he is could not do it.
Rafa has been able to string 3 together but no dice on #4
and red hot winning streak Novak..with a mental edge of being nearly unstoppable could not make the final of the FO.

I am starting to doubt we will see a Grandslam again....much less (2) from the same player.

will we see someone win more than 20 slams? probably
someone win more than 7 times at a single slam? that should probably happen in the next 3 years


Fed's weeks @ #1 is about the strongest stat I think he has and we will see when he's cashed in his chips just what that number will be.

No1e 10-08-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dark Knight (Post 6942650)
That would work if you only wanted to name Federer as the greatestest of all time But that wouldn't really work for anyone else....because then you would have to also say according to your definition that Emerson was greater than Laver.

You would also have to say that Margaret court is better than Graf,Williams , Navratilova , evert.

Also you would have to say that laver Borg and Nadal are all equal.....and that Emerson was better than all three of them.

So I don't think your definition would really work. Do you?

So, what do you have in mind?

Cup8489 10-08-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No1e (Post 6942672)
So, what do you have in mind?

He has in mind:

"Must have 7 French Opens. Must have beaten Federer 8 times out of ten in majors. Must be named Rafael Nadal."

PCXL-Fan 10-08-2012 11:59 AM

GOAT is a nickname iberian and people of iberian descendant (eg many south americaners) call Nadal.

GOAT is also a nickname people of germanic ethnicity call Federer.

GOAT is also a nickname people of old age and Aussies call Laver.

GOAT is also a nickname americans over 30 and greek people call Sampras.

2ndGOAT is also a nickname Scandinavian people call Borg (no sorry they dont call him GOAT)

SoBad 10-08-2012 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCXL-Fan (Post 6942679)
GOAT is a nickname iberian and people of iberian descendant (eg many south americaners) call Nadal.

I put Nadal just a notch below Sampras.

No1e 10-08-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cup8489 (Post 6942676)
He has in mind:

"Must have 7 French Opens. Must have beaten Federer 8 times out of ten in majors. Must be named Rafael Nadal."

Well, I think mine is the more popular definition, even though I am not 100% sure I agree with that myself.

I remember people started labeling Roger as the GOAT after his slam count had surpassed Sampras'.

The Dark Knight 10-08-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No1e (Post 6942672)
So, what do you have in mind?

It's tough....I don't want to seem biased.

Certainly the number of slams should count.

Also the number of slams on different surfaces should count

I'm scared to say the last one....but ones record against your main rival should count for something ? You can't says it has zero significance just because you hate Nadal.

Weeks at no 1 and lesser tournaments don't matter to me at all. I believe only slams matter.

PCXL-Fan 10-08-2012 12:15 PM

Weeks at no.1 maters in terms of consistency. You see Nadal is not that consistent on Hardcourt.

We constantly ding Federer for being less consistent on clay because he loses to Nadal on clay and doesn't reach 80% clay court tournament finals he entered into. So we must also ding Nadal for not being consistent on Hardcourt.

RogerRacket111 10-08-2012 12:19 PM

GOAT says "BAAAAAAHHHHH" :)

COW says "MOOOO"

The Dark Knight 10-08-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCXL-Fan (Post 6942709)
Weeks at no.1 maters in terms of consistency. You see Nadal is not that consistent on Hardcourt.

We constantly ding Federer for being less consistent on clay because he loses to Nadal on clay and doesn't reach 80% clay court tournament finals he entered into. So we must also ding Nadal for not being consistent on Hardcourt.

I don't want to turn this into a Fedal thing.

I want to actually consider all players as fairly as possible.

Sure my favorite player is Nadal....but I'm trying not to give in to my urge.

I'm truly trying to define goat.....

I think we first have to define what the term actually means in a general sense.

Does it mean the player with best record over the longest period of time? Then yes it's Fed......

But that's not what goat means to me.....to me it means that this person is the greatest player of all time meaning that he could beat anyone anywhere .......

That person could be djokovic for example except he doesn't have the FO....he is certainly on his way though.

I don't think there is a real answer to the real goat......meaning the BEST......someone who no one could defeat.

Mcenroe came awfully close. I think he had like 2 losses one year? He was basically unbeatable ....same as Jokers record almost.

Evan77 10-08-2012 12:31 PM

not his goat s*** again please. don't you guys ever get tired? how many open threads we already have about goat stuff? like 100s.

Swissv2 10-08-2012 12:33 PM

According to the TW forums, the GOAT is determined not by statistics - but by subjective favoritism and bias.

True story.

tennis_pro 10-08-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan77 (Post 6942735)
not his goat s*** again please. don't you guys ever get tired? how many open threads we already have about goat stuff? like 100s.

We need another 50!

VPhuc tennis fan 10-08-2012 12:34 PM

Line, hook, and sinker. Damn, the fishing expedition has been great!
Bite, fish, bite.


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