Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Junior League & Tournament Talk (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=36)
-   -   Forehand - 10 years (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442417)

Stokke 10-08-2012 01:08 PM

Forehand - 10 years
 
Hello all,

I posted a clip of my 9 yr. old here last year and got some advice on how he, according to the posters here, could improve (thank you).

Here he is a year later - I thought that I would post it to give all you (= us) crazy tennis parents a reference. If your kid is doing better - congrats, we welcome your advice; if not - ask us anything :)

TCF - will be in Florida in December. Do you think that your girl can handle a 10 year old? Let us meet for a practice match?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ahFJNghlg

Morten

high and deep 10-08-2012 01:17 PM

what a nice change. So much more confident when he approaching that ball, not tentative at all. One small thing. Look at his grip changes it looks like starts with a full western and then right before he starts to start his swing forward he switches to a semi western. See if you notice this.

barringer97 10-08-2012 01:39 PM

footwork looks better also...

Postpre 10-08-2012 01:42 PM

Pause the video at the 27 & 30 second mark. Notice his take back extends behind his body to the point where the front of the racquet is facing the back wall. Now watch Djokovic in slow motion and look at his forehand take back (everything stays in front and is more compact):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_lywtCEci0

RoddickAce 10-08-2012 01:47 PM

Wow, a lot more explosive and better weight transfer.

BirdieLane 10-08-2012 03:36 PM

Good balance and decent load.

But very important, and similar to what Postpre said, you want to work on keeping the racket on the right side of his body during preparation when looking from the front. Instead of putting the racket 'behind his back'.

When standing in front of him, you should not see the racket ever show up on the left side (behind him) during preparation. Some call this "not breaking the plane" that would be defined perpendicular to the baseline through your body - again, meaning the racket stays on right side of body.

Another symptom of the same thing - notice how from this side view, you see the buttcap of the racket before his begins his forward swing - again, it's because the racket is behind his back instead of on the right side of his body. Once you correct this, you will not see the buttcap pointed toward the camera from this angle.

A lot of WTA forehands are hit as he is hitting with respect to the preparation, but most ATP forehands are hit as I describe.

The only other thing, definitely a second priority (and many players fight this) is that he opens up his hips a little early which leads to a little overrotation of his hips and then shoulders. It's not too bad but if you can get him to hold that back foot longer (before it points forward) you will get more from the kenetic chain and you won't overrotate the hips and shoulders as much.

He's got good feet and I like how he adjusts his contact point. To challenge his footwork (and make him a much better player) you'll want to also work on taking balls more on the rise instead of getting too grooved always setting up to take ball on way down.

Good luck!!

Postpre 10-08-2012 04:26 PM

To add to BirdieLane's excellent thoughts about the buttcap of your son's racquet during preparation, look here at Djokovic's forehand take back from the same side angle that your son's video was shot (and notice the buttcap of his racquet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me1tzm1nnWk

Alohajrtennis 10-08-2012 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postpre (Post 6943091)
To add to BirdieLane's excellent thoughts about the buttcap of your son's racquet during preparation, look here at Djokovic's forehand take back from the same side angle that your son's video was shot (and notice the buttcap of his racquet):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me1tzm1nnWk

Stokke

Take a look in the tips an techniques section, search for "pat the dog". There some good instructional techniques used to get the racket in the face down position with the butt facing the net, and then getting him to pull the racket forward.

NLBwell 10-08-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdieLane (Post 6943009)
The only other thing, definitely a second priority (and many players fight this) is that he opens up his hips a little early which leads to a little overrotation of his hips and then shoulders. It's not too bad but if you can get him to hold that back foot longer (before it points forward) you will get more from the kenetic chain and you won't overrotate the hips and shoulders as much.

Better than many kids I've seen at this. It is way too common. The player loses some of the energy he has built up in his lower body and can cause problems consistently striking the ball cleanly in non-optimal situations.

LeeD 10-08-2012 04:56 PM

Instead of DJ, or Tsonga, a better model to follow might be a WTA player.
The men are just too strong, face really hard hit hard spin balls.
Your son is facing another junior his age, and his strength is not nearly ATP level, but closer to WTA levels. As such, the long takeback is fine, needed to generate power, and only a concern if he's always late to meet the ball.,

BirdieLane 10-08-2012 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6943122)
Instead of DJ, or Tsonga, a better model to follow might be a WTA player.
The men are just too strong, face really hard hit hard spin balls.
Your son is facing another junior his age, and his strength is not nearly ATP level, but closer to WTA levels. As such, the long takeback is fine, needed to generate power, and only a concern if he's always late to meet the ball.,

You are right that the form shown by Djok adapts better to pace and spin; Also return of serve, hitting on the run, etc.

But note there are many juniors, boys and girls, that hit with this more kinetically optimized form typical on the ATP today. But in my opinion, it's more about technique and kinetic efficiency than strength. Men don't hit this way because it takes more strength, they hit this way because it's the best use of strength.

But I will grant you that one reason that so many juniors struggle with this is that they are using rackets that are out of proportion to what men use. I suspect I'd have trouble trying to hit properly if I used a 35" inch racket, just like a small kid will struggle with a 27". But I really feel that if you are using a racket that is close to the right size proportionally, then the "right side" technique can be learned regardless of size or gender.

ga tennis 10-09-2012 04:17 AM

FIX THE FOREHAND NOW!!!!! Go to www.virtualtennisacademy.com search millenium forehand. I like how he moves. The site is free. Heath the guy that owns the site is my daughters coach.

ga tennis 10-09-2012 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6943122)
Instead of DJ, or Tsonga, a better model to follow might be a WTA player.
The men are just too strong, face really hard hit hard spin balls.
Your son is facing another junior his age, and his strength is not nearly ATP level, but closer to WTA levels. As such, the long takeback is fine, needed to generate power, and only a concern if he's always late to meet the ball.,

I totally disagree. Fix it now!!!!! When he gets older he will not survive the pace of his opponents ball with that technique. Go to the site i told u and fix it now!! You will thank me really soon.

julian 10-09-2012 06:19 AM

The video of Djokovic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdieLane (Post 6943009)
Good balance and decent load.

But very important, and similar to what Postpre said, you want to work on keeping the racket on the right side of his body during preparation when looking from the front. Instead of putting the racket 'behind his back'.

When standing in front of him, you should not see the racket ever show up on the left side (behind him) during preparation. Some call this "not breaking the plane" that would be defined perpendicular to the baseline through your body - again, meaning the racket stays on right side of body.

Another symptom of the same thing - notice how from this side view, you see the buttcap of the racket before his begins his forward swing - again, it's because the racket is behind his back instead of on the right side of his body. Once you correct this, you will not see the buttcap pointed toward the camera from this angle.

A lot of WTA forehands are hit as he is hitting with respect to the preparation, but most ATP forehands are hit as I describe.

The only other thing, definitely a second priority (and many players fight this) is that he opens up his hips a little early which leads to a little overrotation of his hips and then shoulders. It's not too bad but if you can get him to hold that back foot longer (before it points forward) you will get more from the kenetic chain and you won't overrotate the hips and shoulders as much.

He's got good feet and I like how he adjusts his contact point. To challenge his footwork (and make him a much better player) you'll want to also work on taking balls more on the rise instead of getting too grooved always setting up to take ball on way down.

Good luck!!


The good description in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHLzbvR3Xr4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...E&feature=fvwp

INTO10s 10-09-2012 07:56 AM

totally agree with you ga tennis. It is very difficult to correct this problem of "breaking the plane" especially with girls. And it is definitely not an issue that involves strength as LeeD suggest. I saw a girl this weekend at an Southern L3 in Athens in G12 that as soon as I saw her I knew that she was a student of Heath. Waters. She must of been 10yo but hit with great intensity and great technique using this millenium forward style that you mention (which is basically the federer FH). Not sure what her name was but I think the initials where AM, but not sure and in fact I found out later that she does go to Strive academy.

ga tennis 10-09-2012 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INTO10s (Post 6944045)
totally agree with you ga tennis. It is very difficult to correct this problem of "breaking the plane" especially with girls. And it is definitely not an issue that involves strength as LeeD suggest. I saw a girl this weekend at an Southern L3 in Athens in G12 that as soon as I saw her I knew that she was a student of Heath. Waters. She must of been 10yo but hit with great intensity and great technique using this millenium forward style that you mention (which is basically the federer FH). Not sure what her name was but I think the initials where AM, but not sure and in fact I found out later that she does go to Strive academy.

Yep shes one of our girls.Three of them were there this weekend including my daughter. They are struggling now because they are doing it right.Its just hard watching them lose to the girls with terrible technique that play to win and keep the ball in play. It wont be long and our girls will be on another planet than the other girls.When you do it right it takes time to develop. Our girls are only 10 except one is 12 but she wasn't there.

INTO10s 10-09-2012 10:28 AM

It was mesmerizing watching this girl play. She had the intensity of a Bartoli but unlike Bartoli had excellent technique. At first I thought it was RM, minus the bow, since the strokes and size where so similar. I watched like 20 mins of the match and although she made a lot of unforced errors, the other girl played calmly and soft and made fewer mistakes and therefore won. I could see this girl as a force to be reckoned with in 1-2 years. I tried to catch a glimpse of your daughter play but I did not have a chance. I spent most of my time at a different site since my daughter was playing in the 14s at this tournament.

Stokke 10-09-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdieLane (Post 6943009)
Good balance and decent load.

But very important, and similar to what Postpre said, you want to work on keeping the racket on the right side of his body during preparation when looking from the front. Instead of putting the racket 'behind his back'.

When standing in front of him, you should not see the racket ever show up on the left side (behind him) during preparation. Some call this "not breaking the plane" that would be defined perpendicular to the baseline through your body - again, meaning the racket stays on right side of body.

Another symptom of the same thing - notice how from this side view, you see the buttcap of the racket before his begins his forward swing - again, it's because the racket is behind his back instead of on the right side of his body. Once you correct this, you will not see the buttcap pointed toward the camera from this angle.

A lot of WTA forehands are hit as he is hitting with respect to the preparation, but most ATP forehands are hit as I describe.

The only other thing, definitely a second priority (and many players fight this) is that he opens up his hips a little early which leads to a little overrotation of his hips and then shoulders. It's not too bad but if you can get him to hold that back foot longer (before it points forward) you will get more from the kenetic chain and you won't overrotate the hips and shoulders as much.

He's got good feet and I like how he adjusts his contact point. To challenge his footwork (and make him a much better player) you'll want to also work on taking balls more on the rise instead of getting too grooved always setting up to take ball on way down.

Good luck!!

He is already working on shortening his backswing but I like how you explain the concept of "not breaking the plane" Good stuff!

Taking balls early is actually something that he is quite good at - he will defend his baseline and try to return balls as early as possible to pressure his opponent. We do the drill where he has to return everything from inside the court..

I shall look into the overrotation part..

Thank you :)

INTO10s 10-09-2012 10:47 AM

Stokke, take a look at the website that ga tennis mentioned " virtual tennis academy" its free to join. Start by looking at these 2 videos and I think you will learn a great deal. 1. The millenium forehand 2. position-balance-transfer. You will then have a better understand of this "not breaking the plane" concept and much more.

Stokke 10-09-2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6943122)
Instead of DJ, or Tsonga, a better model to follow might be a WTA player.
The men are just too strong, face really hard hit hard spin balls.
Your son is facing another junior his age, and his strength is not nearly ATP level, but closer to WTA levels. As such, the long takeback is fine, needed to generate power, and only a concern if he's always late to meet the ball.,

At this point I am not overly concerned with his "WTA takeback" but, as I told BirdieLane, we are working on shortening it.

I think that you are correct in linking the longer takeback with an easy way, for younger players (and women?), to generate more power.

Thank you :)


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:21 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse