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-   -   how do you play vs carlos moya types? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442516)

josofo 10-09-2012 11:56 AM

how do you play vs carlos moya types?
 
k so i have been playing this guy for a couple years now. and i always have been better than him but now i lose to often.

this is his game.


he only serves 80-90 mph serves maybe, very occasionally he will hit a bigger 1.

he has a very big 4 hand. he is especially good at putting away short shots. his backhand hand is by far his weaker shot he slices almost every backhand. when he comes over it as say a passing shot its just for power and usually has poor direction.

from the back of the court he prefer going cross court with his forehand. he runs around as many backhands as possible, to hit the inside out forehand.

his net game is not good. he hits pretty soft volleys in general and blows way to many put away volleys. however because his approach shots are really good forcing him to play the net isn't really a great strategy.




k so now i will go over what seems to work. well this is how i am trying to play with him.


1) i have always had trouble with my serving strategy in general. i can serve 110-115 and i can hit different spots. i serve better in the deuce box because i got a good wide serve to go along with faster serves up the middle.

however i have never had a consistent 2nd serve. a lot of times i will just go 2 1st serve but not go for the line as much and maybe put a little more spin on it. but i lot of times i will just lob a 2nd serve in. so to review although i have one of the best serves for my level i double fault to much + hit to many lob 2nd serves.



anyway my new strategy vs him is i try to hit everything deep. say if he was pushing me around i valued getting the ball back and didn't care that much if my ball landed really short. however he has gotten so good at putting away short balls if i hit a short ball its as good as a miss anyway so i think i should go for more and really just try to never hit it short.

r2473 10-09-2012 12:00 PM

What does Moya have to do with any of this?

Stop double faulting and learn to hit a second serve. Spend all of your practice time on this and this alone until you can do it.

sureshs 10-09-2012 12:01 PM

Doesn't seem to be like Moya at all

LeeD 10-09-2012 12:17 PM

OP is beating himself, all by himself, by double faulting and hitting to his opponent's forehand, then instead of moving him around, he hits only deep shots to his opponent's strong side.
Good strategy to lose.
Maybe employ short CC angles, drop shots, lobs, and punishing that weak backhand?

josofo 10-09-2012 12:17 PM

carlos moya seemed to run around a lot of backhands.

arche3 10-09-2012 12:20 PM

We need video of the 115 serve.

LeeD 10-09-2012 12:24 PM

Big serves hardly ever beats anyone without a smart player behind it, using strategy and placements.

sureshs 10-09-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6944572)
Big serves hardly ever beats anyone without a smart player behind it, using strategy and placements.

The Doctor is a good counter example.

LeeD 10-09-2012 12:41 PM

I actually thought about Ivo before I posted.
He is smarter than most people give him credit for. He gives up most return games to save his strength, energy, and balance for his serve games. He slices and rallies on return games, and only tries if he get's even at duece or 30-30, otherwise just goes thru the motions.
Seems players with serious flaws in their games NEED to be smarter than balanced players.
Let's look at MarionBartoli. She kinda looks like my g/f. :)
Now let's look at DelPo. He doesn't need to be a genius at tennis strategy, does he?

goran_ace 10-09-2012 12:46 PM

Pardon me for being blunt, but this is anonymous forum so let's be real here. OP, stop kidding yourself that you have 'one of the best serves for your level' when you can't get second serve in the box without fluffing it. A lot of guys at my club can hit a 100 mph ball but these guys have no command over it and opponents have no fear of it because they know that even in one game they'll get a lot of looks at fluffy second serves and free points off DF's to more than make up for aces/service winners. You're on the right track about taking some pace off and adding some spin, but let's do that on the first serve and get more of those in.

As for how to play him from the baseline, well, generally you want to hit a lot of balls to that backhand when in neutral/rally situations and do not to let him set up behind a forehand (i.e. make him have to hit forehands on the run, open up that side first).

Cheetah 10-09-2012 12:49 PM

Learn to hit very wide shots to fh. step inside the court to attack weaker reply. hit it wide to his weak bh. follow it in or repeat sequence. or slice it short and wide to bh after hitting wide fh and you have stepped inside.

LeeD 10-09-2012 12:52 PM

We all like to THINK our first flat serves are big enough to win at least half the points, and solicit weak returns the other half, when they go in, of course.
But in order to GO for the first serves, we need a super reliable, basically hard to attack second serve, which is usually much slower, higher bouncing, and placed to the area WE decide. And we still get a tough return of half of those!
This against our peers.
Pretty much, when my first flats go in 50%, I cannot lose at my level of 4.0, unless I hurt myself and default.
Fortunately for me, 50% is not realistic in serious match play, so I'll settle for 35%.

NLBwell 10-09-2012 10:43 PM

You are only as good as your second serve.

AnotherTennisProdigy 10-10-2012 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 6945344)
You are only as good as your second serve.

I was going to say that but I guess I was too late. :)

Like the others above me said, your serve can't be the best for your level if you are constantly double faulting. Do not overestimate your serve, a fast serve does not necessarily equal a good serve. I'm assuming you aren't good at creating spin on your serve with the way you described it. Work on that, by adding spin you can decrease double faults and add variety, then your serve will truly be a weapon.

BTW Moya isn't a good analogy, when you think of him you imagine a typical clay court player (gets a lot of balls back, retriever, consistent). Correct me if I'm wrong, but he seems to be a 1-dimensional player. Efficient, but one dimensional. You haven't really described your game but a tactic you can use is to just mix it up, keep hitting him different kinds of shots. This can help neutralize his forehand and expose his backhand's technical flaws. Remember to build the point to maximize your strength (whatever it is) and apply it to their weakness (his backhand).

TennisCJC 10-12-2012 08:41 AM

Seems pretty simple to devise a game plan. Here are are my strat-a-gems (a gem of a strategy).

1. Short term strat-a-gem: Take a bit off 1st serve - you want to get 2 of 3 1st serves in so you don't let the guy use his good FH on your weak 2nd serve
2. Long term strat-a-gem: work on a topspin/kick 2nd serve that you can swing at at 90% of you 1st serve racket speed but brush it for more spin. Work on placement to the corners and a body serve with this new 2nd serve. Hit at least 2 buckets per week of 2nd serves.
3. Short term strat-a-gem: come to the damn net against the guys BH. His slice will not be an effective pass, his topspin pass sounds a bit wild and error prone, and for every time you come in that is one less chance for him to spank one of your short balls.
4. Short term strat-a-gem: on duece court serve him wide to open up his BH side
5. Short term strat-a-gem: hit hard cross court FH to open up his BH side
6. Short term strat-a-gem: loop high topspin shots to his slice backhand to illicit short balls

xFullCourtTenniSx 10-14-2012 03:00 PM

110 mph first serve and no second serve... Who are you? Fernando Verdasco?

For dragging him to net, have you considered pulling him off the court, then hitting a low, short slice to the other side? Not a dropshot, but a knifing slice that just lands short. He comes up, you pass him.

Have you considered hitting it wide and deep enough into his backhand corner so that he can't hit a forehand? It's not always enough to just hit to that side, but you also need to hit it far enough that he can't just run around it. If he tries to run around the ball and hits it from outside the sidelines, punish him by going into his forehand corner. He gives up SO MUCH court if he tries to run around a deep, wide backhand.


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