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-   -   Is it possible to.... (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442575)

AnotherTennisProdigy 10-10-2012 04:51 AM

Is it possible to....
 
....get the same effect an American twist serve gets (kicks up and to the right) on a ground stroke? I was pondering on this subject and the more I thought about it the more curious I got. It would probably be impractical as a shot in a match, but I wanted to know if it could be done. The American twist is my favorite and best serve so I have a good understanding of its spin. However, I do could not do it no matter how much I adjusted my stroke.

So my mad tennis experiment amounted to nothing. Still, is it a possible shot? If so, how do you do it? If it isn't possible then my question is: why can you do it on a serve but not a groundstroke?

PhrygianDominant 10-10-2012 06:11 AM

I seem to remember that Nadal gets this kind of spin on some forehands, but only when the ball is really low and he finishes lasso style. Usually he steps back off the ball when he does this as well, have to check some videos.

Mongolmike 10-10-2012 06:13 AM

I think the only possible shot to try it on, and it would still be difficult, is on an overhead... a shot that was more vertical, let it bounce, get under it, then try it... otherwise how could you possibly get the same racquet action/direction required off a ground stroke that you would use on a kicker?

Mongolmike 10-10-2012 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhrygianDominant (Post 6945666)
I seem to remember that Nadal gets this kind of spin on some forehands, but only when the ball is really low and he finishes lasso style. Usually he steps back off the ball when he does this as well, have to check some videos.

I dunno, I'd like to see the video too, but I think when he hits that shot it is just massive topspin with sidespin... it arcs and kicks in the same direction. There is no arc to the left and kick to the right.... or for him, a lefty, arc to the right and kick to the left.

toly 10-10-2012 09:30 AM

IMO, it is impossible shot due to you should hit a ball with slightly closed racquet and downward. See please ttw thread http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=440128. :shock:

LeeD 10-10-2012 09:51 AM

Of course it is.
Inside out forehands is one example. But you won't get the huge kick effect because your ball is hit from low, clearing the net by 2' only, kicks to the other side, but only barely, like a twist serve from a short guy that barely clears the net.
Only barely is the operative, as the twist effect is slight, and the bounce height is low.

OHBH 10-10-2012 09:58 AM

I've played with a few D1 college players once and it might just have been their topspin but I found it quite hard to judge how their balls would bounce much like a kicker but to a much lesser extent.

AnotherTennisProdigy 10-10-2012 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6946044)
Of course it is.
Inside out forehands is one example. But you won't get the huge kick effect because your ball is hit from low, clearing the net by 2' only, kicks to the other side, but only barely, like a twist serve from a short guy that barely clears the net.
Only barely is the operative, as the twist effect is slight, and the bounce height is low.

I have managed this, but it comes out more like a topspin slice than an American twist. :???:

LeeD 10-10-2012 10:15 AM

You forget, it takes the right bounce height and strikezone, just likea twist serve.
Low balls, off my knees, the ball doesn't twist, it only top/slices.
But as the strikezone get's higher, there is a point where the bounce goes opposite the path of the ball. I see this most often on my strong SW gripped inside out forehands off shoulder high balls, the way I prep.
For other players, with different grips, it can be lower or higher.

mntlblok 10-22-2012 12:12 PM

More spiral spin stuff
 
It's not "quite" the same trajectory and bounce as a kicker, but when Nadal hits his topspin, lefty forehand off a high ball, that ball curves *significantly* to his left in the air, and often kicks significantly to the right after it hits the court. It always amazes me how this doesn't seem to throw off the opponent (the kick off the bounce), but I'm sure those guys can tell from his stroke what the ball's going to do after it's struck. Watch carefully on TV both the ball flight and the bounce next time he plays on TV. Actually, any topspin shot off a high ball will likely to have at least *some* of the in-flight curve. Extremely low balls will have the opposite curve in flight.

The kick (or not) is determined by whether (or how much) spiral (or "corkscrew" or "gyro") spin is applied. The curve in the air is due to the fact that the path of the string bed across the ball is not just "up", but also "across" to the right when a ball is up that high. One can only reach so high. . .

My new, two-handed (righty) topspin backhand off really high balls does the same thing (when I don't frame it) - to a much lesser degree than Rafa's. :mrgreen:

To compare this kind of shot to a serve, though, I'd go with the "screwball" serve - the one that curves to the right in the air (by a righty). I suppose the kick could be manipulated somewhat, too, but the opposite curve has always been enough to throw *me* off as the receiver. :)

Kevin


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