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-   -   The Murray controversy (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=442882)

Danny_G13 10-13-2012 10:31 AM

The Murray controversy
 
He made Wimbledon's final, won Olympic gold, won the US Open and is just beat Federer with ease AGAIN to make the SM final.

And yet every time he has any success at all, his detractors on this forum make excuses for opponents, conditions, circumstances, the lot.

Either Federer tanked, or Djokovic was a victim of scheduling, or Federer didn't care about gold.

I can't fathom why a tennis player as good as Andy Murray, who's in the top 8 all time ATP rankings for titles behind Pete Sampras, is so discredited in a way no other tennis player below or above him is.

Admittedly only on here, a forum which inspires flamewars I couldn't begin to imagine before signing up.

Apparently Federer didn't care today. Of course he didn't care, he cared so little he had the match stopped when there was zero need to do so. He didn't care so much that he ranted to himself after losing a point. Something he rarely does.

The point is ALL PLAYERS CARE. Be it Federer, Murray, Djokovic or anyone else - every player gives their all in a match. Yes, they may have form lulls in a match but they do not take the court without interest in winning.

Which makes the discrediting of Murray so absurd - no other player on the ATP gets this level of grief after a victory.

Ico 10-13-2012 10:50 AM

Chalk it up to Murray's near-unlikeable personality/court behavior.

cc0509 10-13-2012 10:53 AM

Most people are idiots. The truth is Murray is showing the best form of his life and is playing the best out of the top players right now.

kaku 10-13-2012 10:54 AM

I can't recall a single Murray win over a top player (or even lower ranked players at times) where people didn't say he only won because of the wind, the other player was playing poorly, scheduling, etc

kishnabe 10-13-2012 10:58 AM

We all know that.....but Murray creates Hate for no reason.

Don't know what makes it so.

I know I joke about how Murray wins in the wind and being Lucky. I know that he deserves it.

Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal have all won titles with stellar form opponents, sometimes opponents who don't play well for some reasons, and some times being lucky ina point or two.

Murray got the advantage when there was wind against Novak and Berdych, a tired Federer from the Delpo Semi, and today he beat a crap Federer while having the flu.

Federer beat a choking Davydenko in the French Semi(07) and Aussie Qtr(10). Federer beating crapRay in 08 US final.
Djokovic beat a mono Fed in Aussie 08.

kishnabe 10-13-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaku (Post 6952993)
I can't recall a single Murray win over a top player (or even lower ranked players at times) where people didn't say he only won because of the wind, the other player was playing poorly, scheduling, etc

US 08, Aussie 10 Nadal

Cincny 08 Miami 09 Djokovic,

Many wins while playing opponents in a good form. I don't think excuses should matter.

Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic have gotten the easy days too.

tistrapukcipeht 10-13-2012 11:08 AM

Fed's game is more precise and very risky, so against top players if He isn't on is harder for him to beat them because of the same nature of his game where He goes for it while Murray/Nadal/Djokovic are on the mercy of Fed's level.

I think Murray is a great player, but not in the same level as the other 3 for whatever reasons there are, but his personality, brat behavior and lack of class are what make some don't like him at all.

Reasons why i don't like Murray and his game:

Behavior, lack of class(faking injuries), ugly game (specially serve motion and forehand), relies on opponents UE most of the time.

No doubt He deserved the win today, he just played better.

killerboi2 10-13-2012 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ico (Post 6952984)
Chalk it up to Murray's near-unlikeable personality/court behavior.

Yep. Too much people letting personal hate cloud their judgemet of him as a player. I doubt most of the haters acutally believe the ridiculous excuses they make whenever he wins an important match.

Rozroz 10-13-2012 11:16 AM

no excuses. he's a great player with a horrible on court personality.
what can you do?
make hate threads or masturbation threads ;)

Mainad 10-13-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_G13 (Post 6952958)
He made Wimbledon's final, won Olympic gold, won the US Open and is just beat Federer with ease AGAIN to make the SM final. And yet every time he has any success at all, his detractors on this forum make excuses for opponents, conditions, circumstances, the lot.
Which makes the discrediting of Murray so absurd - no other player on the ATP gets this level of grief after a victory.

Danny, welcome to Planet TTW where you can expect to read more absurd things in the space of 5 minutes than it would probably take you for the rest of the week!

I'm a Murray fan and innocently joined this forum 18 months ago hoping to have some really pleasant and informative exchanges with other TTW posters about players we all know and respect and, in my naivety, I expected this to include Murray! Before long, I was confronted with the most amazing and irrational threads about him full of bizarre hostility and out and out hate. You'd think he had committed mass murder or raped somebody's mother or something. Well, no doubt you've seen for yourself how these threads keep popping up. There are several ongoing in this forum as we speak.

In my opinion, there are 2 main schools of Murray-haters:

1. Certain English football fans who have never forgiven Murray for a jokey remark he made some years ago about supporting any team but England when Tim Henman joked to him about Scotland (Murray is a Scot) failing to qualify for the World Cup. These people hate Murray with a vengeance and will waste no time in attacking him both as a person and as a player at every given opportunity.

2. Die-hard Federer fans, whom we call '*******s'. Murray's chief crime in their eyes is to have the audacity to have a positive H2H against him unlike nearly every other player except Nadal. In their eyes, no-one is allowed to beat Federer but to beat him more times than he has beaten you is an absolutely unforgiveable sacrilege. You will see many Nadal-hate threads on here too and they are largely for the same reason and are nearly always started by the same fanatical bunch of Fed fans.

Of course there is often quite a bit of overlap between these two bunches of weirdos.

There is a third category which is much smaller but much more rational and bias-free. These are real tennis fans who genuinely don't care for Murray's style of play. However they are free of irrational hate unlike the other 2 categories and almost always give Murray the respect he is due as a player despite the fact that they don't like him. They would never start the silly troll threads that the guys in the first two categories delight in posting at the drop of a hat and one can have reasonable, intelligent and pleasant conversations with these guys and discuss our differences without the need for any childish name-calling or immature mud-slinging.

So my advice is to try and ignore the troll threads started by and joined in by the same bunch of people. You'll soon get to know the usual suspects.
It's all very sad and pathetic, I know, but try not to let it spoil your enjoyment of this forum. I assure you it IS possible to have rational and civilised discussions about players including Murray. You just have to look for us and seek us out. We are never very far away and will always look forward to sharing information and ideas with you about Murray and anybody else on the professional ATP and WTA tennis tours.

vive le beau jeu ! 10-13-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_G13 (Post 6952958)
a tennis player as good as Andy Murray, who's in the top 8 all time ATP rankings for titles behind Pete Sampras

i'm not sure to understand what you mean with that...

Rhino 10-13-2012 12:24 PM

I keep getting close to liking Murray after watching interviews etc, and then he pulls out that bratty childish on-court behaviour...

Clarky21 10-13-2012 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_G13 (Post 6952958)
He made Wimbledon's final, won Olympic gold, won the US Open and is just beat Federer with ease AGAIN to make the SM final.

And yet every time he has any success at all, his detractors on this forum make excuses for opponents, conditions, circumstances, the lot.

Either Federer tanked, or Djokovic was a victim of scheduling, or Federer didn't care about gold.

I can't fathom why a tennis player as good as Andy Murray, who's in the top 8 all time ATP rankings for titles behind Pete Sampras, is so discredited in a way no other tennis player below or above him is.

Admittedly only on here, a forum which inspires flamewars I couldn't begin to imagine before signing up.

Apparently Federer didn't care today. Of course he didn't care, he cared so little he had the match stopped when there was zero need to do so. He didn't care so much that he ranted to himself after losing a point. Something he rarely does.

The point is ALL PLAYERS CARE. Be it Federer, Murray, Djokovic or anyone else - every player gives their all in a match. Yes, they may have form lulls in a match but they do not take the court without interest in winning.

Which makes the discrediting of Murray so absurd - no other player on the ATP gets this level of grief after a victory.


That would be Rafael Nadal. This place is NHA,and it always will be. And go check out MTF if you REALLY want to see the hate flow.

Russeljones 10-13-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny_G13 (Post 6952958)
I can't fathom why a tennis player as good as Andy Murray, who's in the top 8 all time ATP rankings for titles behind Pete Sampras, is so discredited in a way no other tennis player below or above him is.

I can only think of his on-court demeanour as a factor in this. His workrate is world class and he is undeniably talanted.

Babolatbarry 10-13-2012 12:36 PM

Atleast his behavior is entertaining

db379 10-13-2012 12:53 PM

Murray is a great player, very talented, and when he plays like today he is one of the best players ever. He even managed to almost behave today, I guess against Fed, he has more respect than against Stepanek.

Problem is when he, too often, behaves like a little brat on court, throws insults, swears, breaks racquets, throws balls in the stands etc...
He is unbearable when he fakes injuries and tries to find cheap excuses for his poor performance. That's just not what people want to see from a Champion.Champions are expected to behave and be role models. Who would want to have Murray as a role model for themselves, let alone their children?

For this reason, Murray may win plenty more tournaments and be considered one of the most successful players on tour, but he'll never be in the same league as Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Borg, Laver etc... because these players have class and they know how to behave like true champions on court.

jaggy 10-13-2012 12:56 PM

He is a bit like Roddick that way but because he is Scottish I like to see him win, his behavior does bother me though

*Sparkle* 10-13-2012 01:06 PM

I don't see the problem. If you take a step back, you'll see that a lot of tennis fans have picked their favourite, and have a fixed idea about who should be allowed to beat them, so see everything through that filter.

The timing of Murray's rise meant that a lot of people had latched onto other players who are still active, so in their eyes, he's always going to be the challenger, so need to explain away his success. They are also more likely to latch onto behaviour as an excuse to hate that wouldn't bother them in their favourite or someone who isn't a threat. By the time they've bumped their gums a bit, more neutral people can be influenced.

In Andy's case, the whole saga of him being "anti-English" was taken frighteningly seriously by people who would claim to never pick up a tabloid, never mind read it. It's just one of those stories that grows arms and legs and becomes an established "fact".

An actual well established fact that once someone has decided that they like, or don't like someone, they'll selectively notice and believe positive, or negative reports or press about them.

But if you were a fan of another player, you'd see plenty of hate going in their direction, often just as unjustified.

To be honest, I don't think it's worth worrying about what the more mouthy people on an internet forum have to say. This kind of place attracts people who want to moan or demean people who have achieved more than they could dream of. It's the nature of the beast.

I also think that a lot of people who make wild claims are doing so with their tongues firmly planted in one cheek. All the stuff about the wind - most people are joking.

Clarky21 10-13-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by db379 (Post 6953133)
Murray is a great player, very talented, and when he plays like today he is one of the best players ever. He even managed to almost behave today, I guess against Fed, he has more respect than against Stepanek.

Problem is when he, too often, behaves like a little brat on court, throws insults, swears, breaks racquets, throws balls in the stands etc...
He is unbearable when he fakes injuries and tries to find cheap excuses for his poor performance
. That's just not what people want to see from a Champion.Champions are expected to behave and be role models. Who would want to have Murray as a role model for themselves, let alone their children?

For this reason, Murray may win plenty more tournaments and be considered one of the most successful players on tour, but he'll never be in the same league as Sampras, Federer, Nadal, Borg, Laver etc... because these players have class and they know how to behave like true champions on court.



This describes **** perfectly. He swears and insults the linesmen,crowd,and whoever else he feels like during his matches. The only difference is he does it all in Serbian,so a lot of people don't know what he's saying. Like in Rome this year when he told the linemen to suck his c**k,and f**k your mother because they missed a call. And when he smashed his racket on the netpost during that same match right in front of the ballgirls face. Or when he smashed his racket into the bench at RG shattering it. Murray is unfairly singled out for this because ****,and others are just as bad if not worse.

Rozroz 10-13-2012 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarky21 (Post 6953161)
This describes **** perfectly.

not even close i'm afraid. Nole might play dirty but he does it nicely ;)


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