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-   -   go-to pattern of play (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=443070)

pushing_wins 10-15-2012 01:14 PM

go-to pattern of play
 
cc fh, short ball, inside out fh winner

could sticking to a simple pattern like that add .5 ntrp to your game?

LeeD 10-15-2012 01:18 PM

Yes, if you get that short center ball from your opponent, and you can execute that shot every time.
Playing your peers, you seldom get that short ball you can run around, and in reality, you will miss as many as you make, of that inside out winner attempt.
Against someone bad, you can look half a level better than your are.
Against someone good, you often look worse than you really are.

dominikk1985 10-15-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6957464)
Yes, if you get that short center ball from your opponent, and you can execute that shot every time.
Playing your peers, you seldom get that short ball you can run around, and in reality, you will miss as many as you make, of that inside out winner attempt.
Against someone bad, you can look half a level better than your are.
Against someone good, you often look worse than you really are.

the key in bold. at the lower level excution is much more important than tactics and deception.

5263 10-16-2012 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 6957453)
cc fh, short ball, inside out fh winner

could sticking to a simple pattern like that add .5 ntrp to your game?

IMO if you can highly improve just the ability to recognize, execute well and consistently
on the attackable ball, you can likely improve close to a full ntrp.

Most players rally ability far exceeds their ability to capitalize on the good looks
they earn.

aceroberts13 10-16-2012 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6958588)
IMO if you can highly improve just the ability to recognize, execute well and consistently
on the attackable ball, you can likely improve close to a full ntrp.

Most players rally ability far exceeds their ability to capitalize on the good looks
they earn.

What's the best advice you can think of for closing that gap?

5263 10-16-2012 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceroberts13 (Post 6958851)
What's the best advice you can think of for closing that gap?

For starters,

More practice and focus on learning to recognize what is an attackable short ball..
...for the individual player and their skills.
Most don't have any thoughts on this topic and have hardly approached it from
this perspective.
Most seem to think any short ball is attackable, which they are not. Some short balls
are actually very effective attacks or winners themselves, much less could they
be attackable in reply.

Figure how you will attack different attackable mid court or short balls.
Regular practice at the attacks you expect to execute on the various attackable
balls.

aceroberts13 10-16-2012 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6958883)
For starters,

More practice and focus on learning to recognize what is an attackable short ball..
...for the individual player and their skills.
Most don't have any thoughts on this topic and have hardly approached it from
this perspective.
Most seem to think any short ball is attackable, which they are not. Some short balls
are actually very effective attacks or winners themselves, much less could they
be attackable in reply.

Figure how you will attack different attackable mid court or short balls.
Regular practice at the attacks you expect to execute on the various attackable
balls.

Good stuff. I started a thread about this hoping to get more. I think a big mistake a lot of beginners or lower level players (myself included) make is failing to recognize how "dirty" a lot of points are in a match. There aren't nearly as many baseline rallies and such in a match that you think there are. Court positioning, movement, anticipation, racquet prep, and a thousand other things are so immensely important in points and you hardly ever think about that stuff when you are just practicing or having a friendly rally.

dominikk1985 10-16-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6958588)
IMO if you can highly improve just the ability to recognize, execute well and consistently
on the attackable ball, you can likely improve close to a full ntrp.

Most players rally ability far exceeds their ability to capitalize on the good looks
they earn.

yes. many errors happen because players try to attack balls that they should not have attacked with their skill level.

this is similar to hitting a baseball. you don't want to miss that ball over the plate but you don't want to expand your zone either.

5263 10-16-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 6958936)
yes. many errors happen because players try to attack balls that they should not have attacked with their skill level.

this is similar to hitting a baseball. you don't want to miss that ball over the plate but you don't want to expand your zone either.

good analogy imo.

5263 10-16-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceroberts13 (Post 6958912)
Good stuff. I started a thread about this hoping to get more. I think a big mistake a lot of beginners or lower level players (myself included) make is failing to recognize how "dirty" a lot of points are in a match. There aren't nearly as many baseline rallies and such in a match that you think there are. Court positioning, movement, anticipation, racquet prep, and a thousand other things are so immensely important in points and you hardly ever think about that stuff when you are just practicing or having a friendly rally.

Thanks,
I look at the game as 3 main levels, but is mostly played in just 2.
1st is rally and 2ond serve...................................basic ball in play type stuff
2ond is attackable mid court balls and first serves....attacking and forcing
3rd is volleys, overheads and big first serves...........finishing

sure, all volleys are not put aways, but maybe the general idea is there

Mostly played in the first 2 areas with lots of rallying and some attacking, but
not to much true finishing skills at net or really big serves, and there is no
shame in this...just how it shakes out.
Too many attempts to finish in the first 2 areas where you should rally or
attack/pressure imo.

NLBwell 10-16-2012 10:18 AM

The only thing you completely determine in a match is your serve. Any go-to pattern of play needs to start there.
Wide serve, forehand into the open court; middle serve, serve and volley; etc. whatever pattern you choose, whatever you are comfortable with, starts with the serve.

pushing_wins 10-16-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6958588)
IMO if you can highly improve just the ability to recognize, execute well and consistently
on the attackable ball, you can likely improve close to a full ntrp.

Most players rally ability far exceeds their ability to capitalize on the good looks
they earn.

the idea behind my proposed pattern is

- never change direction
- dont waste time practising any DTL shots
- most players can hit a harder DTL than CC

5263 10-16-2012 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 6959570)
the idea behind my proposed pattern is

- never change direction
- dont waste time practising any DTL shots
- most players can hit a harder DTL than CC

if you never change direction, you always hit back to them, right?

pushing_wins 10-17-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6959577)
if you never change direction, you always hit back to them, right?

no, my thought was to always hit cross court

but hitting a cross court off a dtl is more difficult than hitting dtl off cc

LeeD 10-17-2012 12:29 PM

??????
But if you always hit CC, even a moron can figure where you're hitting your next ball.

skiracer55 10-17-2012 12:40 PM

Bingo...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 6959019)
The only thing you completely determine in a match is your serve. Any go-to pattern of play needs to start there.
Wide serve, forehand into the open court; middle serve, serve and volley; etc. whatever pattern you choose, whatever you are comfortable with, starts with the serve.

...most important shot in the game is the serve. A strong first serve can produce a return that puts you in the drivers' seat from the get-go. The second serve has to go in, but it can't be a helium ball, either. You need a second serve that will at least let you start the point on neutral terms. By the same token, second most important shot in the game is the return, where getting a lot of returns back and putting pressure on the server, if possible, leads you to the patterns that work for you. It's no accident that Murray and Djokovich, arguably the two best players currently on the ATP, both of whom have very complete games, are also two of the best servers and returners in the game...

StringingIrvine 10-17-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pushing_wins (Post 6961083)
no, my thought was to always hit cross court

but hitting a cross court off a dtl is more difficult than hitting dtl off cc

I'm no crazy tennis guru (usta rated 4.5) but if my understanding of directionals is correct what you said is actually opposite?

If someone hits a cross court to my forehand the easiest shot is back at him with a cross court shot. Ball will cross the path of my body therefore its easier to return ball back at the direction. Not to mention court geometry favors cross court shot (longer distance), and the net is lower.

Theory is all good and sticking to a game plan but I find at lower levels its hard to properly execute a solid game plan focused on a theory ie. your opponent prob does not understand the same theories and therefore will go for that 25% shot DTL instead of the CC shot. Similar to playing poker with someone who goes all in on a pair of 2's after the flop because they have a pair. Percentage says they will lose but it doesn't always happen.

I'd read up on court positioning and directionals and that will improve .5 nrtp if you can fully understand it and put it in action.

In recent matches i've had A LOT of success with the lull, jam, finish theory but just with court positioning. Hitting constantly to one corner and waiting for them to get lazy and hitting a jam shot cross court not nessessarly as a winner but as a jam shot. That usually causes an unforced error or puts me in good control of the point.

pushing_wins 10-17-2012 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6961207)
??????
But if you always hit CC, even a moron can figure where you're hitting your next ball.

ever do the drill - one person always hit cc, other hits always dtl

the guy hitting dtl is running 2x the distance

given:
hitting in the same direction and trajectory is easier
inside out is more powerful than inside in

question:
changing direction - whats more difficult? off DTL or CC

LeeD 10-17-2012 01:34 PM

Your similies don't apply when you add the human factor. It only works in your mathbook PC.
A real opponent, seeing you don't go DTL after 3 shots, camps there, daring you to hit DTL and change the path of the incoming ball.
If I see you limping in warmups, I'll be sure to dropshot/lob you.
If I see you hate slice shots, I'll slice you every time.
If I see your first serve heater goes on side only, I'll camp there.
Human's play tennis, not mathematicians.

pushing_wins 10-17-2012 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StringingIrvine (Post 6961275)
I'm no crazy tennis guru (usta rated 4.5) but if my understanding of directionals is correct what you said is actually opposite?

If someone hits a cross court to my forehand the easiest shot is back at him with a cross court shot. Ball will cross the path of my body therefore its easier to return ball back at the direction. Not to mention court geometry favors cross court shot (longer distance), and the net is lower.

Theory is all good and sticking to a game plan but I find at lower levels its hard to properly execute a solid game plan focused on a theory ie. your opponent prob does not understand the same theories and therefore will go for that 25% shot DTL instead of the CC shot. Similar to playing poker with someone who goes all in on a pair of 2's after the flop because they have a pair. Percentage says they will lose but it doesn't always happen.

I'd read up on court positioning and directionals and that will improve .5 nrtp if you can fully understand it and put it in action.

In recent matches i've had A LOT of success with the lull, jam, finish theory but just with court positioning. Hitting constantly to one corner and waiting for them to get lazy and hitting a jam shot cross court not nessessarly as a winner but as a jam shot. That usually causes an unforced error or puts me in good control of the point.

i agree.

after your CC forehand,

your opponent hits CC. no brainer. you go CC

your oppenent hits toward middle of the court. wat would you do? i would still go fh CC.

your opponent hits neutral DTL. should you change directions? given that dtl is the easier shot.


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