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-   -   Another one bites the dust.... (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=443101)

tennis5 10-15-2012 06:13 PM

Another one bites the dust....
 
ZOO Tennis - 10/15/2012

http://tenniskalamazoo.blogspot.com/

I first heard over the weekend from the Running Forehand blog that Andrea Collarini, who had played under the US flag for more than two years, including at 2010's US Open Junior Championships, will return to playing for Argentina, where he grew up and developed prior to receiving a USTA grant for training in Boca Raton.



RUNNING FOREHAND

http://www.runningforehand.com/2012/...for-argentina/

Today, the Asociación Argentina de Tenis (AAT) emitted a release that rejoiced many:
Andrea Collarini will, from now on, once again represent Argentina on the ATP Tour, “a very important decision” for the young lefty:

“I was born in the United States, but I lived and developed my tennis in Argentina for as long as I can remember,
and have even represented what I feel is my country.
I value the experience I gained in the United States, but my place is here.”



NYT - 2010

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.co...l-affiliation/

Earlier in 2010, he moved with his coach, Diego Moyano, to Boca Raton, Fla., to be a part of the U.S.T.A.’s training program, setting off wrinkles of anger in much of Argentina....

... In that same article, Collarini told Robson that the U.S.T.A. “pays me everything,” meaning that they are now providing financial backing for his touring of the junior and pro circuit, not uncommon from an up-and-coming junior player.

kme5150 10-15-2012 07:12 PM

How much more has to happen before somebody at the USTA PD loses their job over ignorant decisions like this? There are no repercussions for their actions at all.

coaching32yrs 10-15-2012 07:35 PM

I remember well seeing him at 2010 USO juniors. Crafty lefty. Made a big splash because he was 100% Argentinian, but born in USA and USTA got him. He upset #1 ITF junior in 1st round. Looked good. What were the chances USA would keep him? Only if they could outspend the Argentines. He did not consider himself American.

Alohajrtennis 10-15-2012 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs (Post 6958060)
I remember well seeing him at 2010 USO juniors. Crafty lefty. Made a big splash because he was 100% Argentinian, but born in USA and USTA got him. He upset #1 ITF junior in 1st round. Looked good. What were the chances USA would keep him? Only if they could outspend the Argentines. He did not consider himself American.

Obviously, this was a devilish crafty plot on the part of PMAC. I am sure they have destroyed his game over the past two years, and he will never recover. Simultaneously, one lucky American was saved from having to go to Boca.

I think this is a possible solution to American tennis. We should offer free training at a Boca to the top 50 juniors in the world, accept the Americans. I guarantee you in 10 years we will be dominating again.

Soianka 10-16-2012 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alohajrtennis (Post 6958184)
Obviously, this was a devilish crafty plot on the part of PMAC. I am sure they have destroyed his game over the past two years, and he will never recover.

LOL


......

cmb 10-16-2012 10:56 AM

haha obviously we dont get the full story. In a situation like this there are contracts drawn up, bonuses and ranking expectations.

Could have been a 3 year contract...if he does not reach a certain ranking...the USTA stops paying his expenses, in which case he can change back to playing for argentina

hound 109 10-16-2012 02:52 PM

Hilarious.

I seriously think if they bulldozed White Plains, converted all the Training Centers to City Facilities, fired everyone (& I mean EVERYONE) at Junior Development & then hired a commitee of 3 (Put one bean counter with Tennis 5 & Clark, or TCF & MisterBill, or Aloha & someone else....I don't care) to decide how to divy up the money....that we'd be way better off.

Blue Chip &/or Top 50 usta gets you so much, Top 100, but only a 3 star gets this much. The guy who's 250 with usta (but is a 5 star) gets that much. (& 2-3 guys here could figure it out). Maybe save a few coins for the freak athlete who's coming on strong & all three can agree on.

& then hire a couple of ladies to send checks out to the kids once a month & let them go find their own training.

No beaurocracy (sp?), no wheelchair or diversity grants, (if you want to hold back some for financial need, it's up to you). Keep the foam & whiffle balls if you want to. Keep the computer monkeys at tennis link (& maybe have them revamp the USTA website).

But just send checks to the kids & let them go find the best coach or academy that they can buy. The elite will probably congregate together anyway (like they did in the late 80s/early 90s).

Hell some of them might end up at Boca City courts or Carson or Flushing Meadows City courts anyway (along with new coaches who HAVE a history of delivering.)

You guys probably have 10-15 other (or better) ideas, but first we bulldoze the whole damn thing down, & put a process in place to send the $$ to the kids. Wouldn't be any worse than the past 15 years performance at the USTA Jr. Dev.

Pro_Tour_630 10-16-2012 04:47 PM

Let me guess tennis 5 will give privileges to her son, tcf to his daughter , aloha to his daughter and hey don't forget about me your pain in the butt pal at TT, throw in some coins for me, wink wink :wink:

Is reminds me of my post to TCF many years ago


Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630 (Post 5582994)
Just one question who decides who to fund directly? it will end up bureaucratic by nature, how do you know who is the best player to be funded directly, scouts? OK I think my son is the best player and I want funding $100,000.00 now so I the parent can decided where (TCF) to spend this money ( TCF I will cut a deal with you remember no tournaments and the scout) :-) It will end up in a process with a whole list of procedures to follow, tax implications, quid pro ques, ear markings etc.... and get mucked up in favoritism in the end.

Little Johnny: hey Grandpa just give me the money ( $200 million from us open) so That I can do whatever I want with it, I know what I am doing, just like with all those what have you investments and worthless things I bought in the past, only this time it is different :)


tennis5 10-16-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630 (Post 6959775)
Let me guess tennis 5 will give privileges to her son, tcf to his daughter , aloha to his daughter and hey don't forget about me your pain in the butt pal at TT, throw in some coins for me, wink wink :wink:

Is reminds me of my post to TCF many years ago

Player Development money ( how many millions is it a year?)

I would give 1/3 of the money to the accredited tennis academies and let them give out the scholarships.

And the other 2/3 of the money to the kids who want to go pro for traveling expenses.

Simple.

Oh, and I guess you couldn't be living in another country.....

Pro_Tour_630 10-16-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmb (Post 6959100)
haha obviously we dont get the full story. In a situation like this there are contracts drawn up, bonuses and ranking expectations.

Could have been a 3 year contract...if he does not reach a certain ranking...the USTA stops paying his expenses, in which case he can change back to playing for argentina

Correct , maybe he wants to play Davis cup for Argentina in 2014

Maybe if patmac got martians from outer space to train with his American jr for free some members of the forum would be happy.:)

Brining the best clay courter jr in the world to play with our hard court kids is not a great idea if we have to pay for it, it should be free:?

Pro_Tour_630 10-16-2012 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis5 (Post 6959783)
Player Development money ( how many millions is it a year?)

I would give 1/3 of the money to the accredited tennis academies and let them give out the scholarships.

And the other 2/3 of the money to the kids who want to go pro for traveling expenses.

Simple.

Oh, and I guess you couldn't be living in another country.....

4 million?

So if I am privy with the directors of these tennis academies I get the coins:wink:

Please give me $100,000 because my kid wants to go pro, I promise I will not **** or gamble it away, see the problem ? How do we identify the crazy parents there are lots of them out there, some need it, some have deep pockets and don't need money.

Collarini is an American citizen at birth.

hound 109 10-17-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630 (Post 6959775)
Let me guess tennis 5 will give privileges to her son, tcf to his daughter , aloha to his daughter and hey don't forget about me your pain in the butt pal at TT, throw in some coins for me, wink wink :wink:

Is reminds me of my post to TCF many years ago

You misunderstood what i (& i suppose what tennis 5) was suggesting. What i am saying is:

1- Shut down USTA Junior Dev. Sell everything at auction.

2- Fire everyone with USTA Junior Development. (from P-Mac on down).

3- Keep Tennislink, Tournaments & Ranking System.


We'd have the same number of Top Ten players from Jr. Dev. with -0- dollars spent each year as we've gotten the past 15 years under the past 2 regimes.

But.....If we (or they) wanted to spend money on Junior Dev., then get a few smart people (maybe you & me? or people alot smarter than us) to come up with a SYSTEM to hand out the dough directly to the kids. We don't pick out the players.....the system that we create (or the computer) would. (just like it currently picks the players for an L1 or for star rankings on TRN).

You might think a player who is a 14 y/o blue chip & who is top 50 nationally (USTA) should get 2k per month (for training, lessons, travel etc.) & I might think he should get 1.5K per month. Whatever. But we're not picking the players, we're coming up with a system which will determine what a player (at a particular level & age) would get.

If the "commitee" or you & me....decides to hold some money back for financial need kids (or late blooming athletic freaks), that would be ok by me...or not.

My point is.....just shut down the failed Junior Dev. system & send the dough to the kids. You (or tennishacker or whoever) can decide how much the kids in each level & age group get with the Tens of Millions saved by shutting down P-Mac's feifdom. Let the kids (& parents) who have been identified by ranking & or stars..... decide how to get the most (best) tennis training for the money.
.

hound 109 10-17-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCF (Post 6961829)
Yup, there would have to be checks and balances, receipts provided for training and supplies. But nothing could be a more epic waste of money than the last 15 years of HP.

Yes TCF, good point. The money needs to be spent on tennis (& fitness?) & tennis expenses.

(& I would think that funds should be held to send the best of the best to represent the US & improve their game at International competitions.)

Probably another 10-15 common sense items would need to be included as well. But big picture.....dump PD & send the funds to the kids to get the best training for the money & the family.
.

Alohajrtennis 10-17-2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630 (Post 6959808)
4 million?

So if I am privy with the directors of these tennis academies I get the coins:wink:

Isn't that the situation now ? $1M annually for a TV announcer acting as part time director ? Seriously, can it be worse ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro_Tour_630 (Post 6959808)
Please give me $100,000 because my kid wants to go pro, I promise I will not **** or gamble it away, see the problem ? How do we identify the crazy parents there are lots of them out there, some need it, some have deep pockets and don't need money.

There is a system in place to identify kids now, just give them a scholarships to an accredited academy of their choosing instead of a USTA academy. Means test it if you like, if parent got $$$ they have to pay some of it, if not they get a full ride.

If the academies screw up or don't produce they lose their accreditation.

andfor 10-18-2012 05:06 AM

This whole discussion is basically turned into a pay junior tennis for play. Everyone is talking about how great a new system with money being widely distributed would be. What about the unintended consequences?

maggmaster 10-18-2012 05:32 AM

I think we would be better served by decreasing the amount spent on junior development and increasing the number of tournaments available to all age groups. If you look at tournament density in countries that produce great players, it is much higher in small countries that still have a lot of tournaments.

andfor 10-18-2012 06:24 AM

I agree USTA HP has never really worked. Understand the checks and balances. But distributing the money from the USTA out, I could see a money grab. I.e. like federal grants, entitlements, etc. USTA will never let go. Mgmt shake would be a better start.

I also agree the more national point tournaments need to be out there. Heck, why not all tournaments count for national points? Local less than sectional, etc.

coaching32yrs 10-18-2012 07:27 AM

A agree that HP has been a failure tennis wise. They seem to do pretty good job on fitness and strength training. Some juniors go just for that. I was at a presentation by top USTA strength and fitness coach. She went over in fine detail different muscle groups important for tennis. Showed pictures of Querry when they started with him. His weaknesses. Showed what they worked on for 6 months. Showed the after pictures. Big difference, especially in shoulder area. Maybe she snowed me. In the private sector not hard to get top tennis training. I think the physical and strength stuff much harder to get right. Lot of misinformation.

hound 109 10-18-2012 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alohajrtennis (Post 6961933)
Isn't that the situation now ? $1M annually for a TV announcer acting as part time director ? Seriously, can it be worse ?

There is a system in place to identify kids now, just give them a scholarships to an accredited academy of their choosing instead of a USTA academy. Means test it if you like, if parent got $$$ they have to pay some of it, if not they get a full ride.

If the academies screw up or don't produce they lose their accreditation.

I wouldn't have a huge problem this.....BUT some kids don't need or want (or live near) an "approved" academy.

They might use the dough to get 2 lessons a week from the 2012 equivilent to a Landsdorp, 3-4 days a week at a fitness center, a couple of drop in drills at the local college, entry fees into mens tournaments & travel expenses to National (or international) tournaments. (Since they might be playing every 3 out of 5 weekends).

Again, i say send the kids the $$. If their "pathway" doesn't result in higher results as they age, it'll only cost them.

But if they want to use every penny to offset a super academy expense....then that's OK too. If their "pathway" doesn't deliver, they start getting less $$ (or no money) .


Oh.....& maybe save a few bucks to invest more funds for Futures Tour players (here in the States), so those following the dream have a little bit easier time of it. Heck.....send them Hampton/Fairfield or Subway vouchers.

Tennishacker 10-18-2012 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coaching32yrs (Post 6962356)
A agree that HP has been a failure tennis wise. They seem to do pretty good job on fitness and strength training. Some juniors go just for that. I was at a presentation by top USTA strength and fitness coach. She went over in fine detail different muscle groups important for tennis. Showed pictures of Querry when they started with him. His weaknesses. Showed what they worked on for 6 months. Showed the after pictures. Big difference, especially in shoulder area. Maybe she snowed me. In the private sector not hard to get top tennis training. I think the physical and strength stuff much harder to get right. Lot of misinformation.

Coach, you can't be serious.

Why did Taylor T. and Melanie O. blow up under them?


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