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-   -   USA Today article on Doping in Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=443370)

librarysteg 10-18-2012 08:02 AM

USA Today article on Doping in Tennis
 
With all the doping talk around here lately, here's a big article from USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...oping/1639911/

Testing Tipsarevic in Kenya! I found that impressive on the part of the testers. Sorry if this is posted somewhere else, I looked but couldn't find it.

CMM 10-18-2012 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by librarysteg (Post 6962405)
Testing Tipsarevic in Kenya! I found that impressive on the part of the testers.

Even more impressive was to read that Tipsarevic is training in Africa.

joeri888 10-18-2012 08:09 AM

Speed up the courts! Tennis is and should be primarily a technical rather than a physical sport. It is more on par with soccer, volleybal, table tennis, basketball and golf, than with rowing, cycling and running and swimming. As long as it stays that way, tennis will always be fairer. On the other hand, if the public, the audience, the tournaments want to see Djokovic-Nadal 6 hour war rallies, than you are co-responsible if tennis becomes a doping sport. I am not saying Djokovic and Nadal do it, but the circumstances make it very rewarding to dope. And it shouldn't be. Heterogenize the courts, speed a lot of them up, and make the balls lighter.

tennis_pro 10-18-2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 6962415)
Speed up the courts! Tennis is and should be primarily a technical rather than a physical sport. It is more on par with soccer, volleybal, table tennis, basketball and golf, than with rowing, cycling and running and swimming. As long as it stays that way, tennis will always be fairer. On the other hand, if the public, the audience, the tournaments want to see Djokovic-Nadal 6 hour war rallies, than you are co-responsible if tennis becomes a doping sport. I am not saying Djokovic and Nadal do it, but the circumstances make it very rewarding to dope. And it shouldn't be. Heterogenize the courts, speed a lot of them up, and make the balls lighter.

I agree completely.

I'd prefer watching 100% legit Karlovic-Isner servefests than some all-time great matches where (as it turns out later on) doping was involved. It's like watching an online battle between the best 2 players in the world in Unreal Tournament. Would it be fun to know that they used mods that allowed them to see through walls? Or would you rather enjoy a technically lower quality duel but between 2 non-cheating players?

NadalAgassi 10-18-2012 09:17 AM

I am still amazed there are people who seem oblivious to the fact that in all sports today atleast 65% of the international competitors (even the bottom feeders) are heavily doped. It would be nice if this wasnt the case, but it is.

BrooklynNY 10-18-2012 09:19 AM

Yeah it's impressive doping controls made it to Kenya... considering there is a huge doping investigation going on in Kenya
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...g-inquiry.html

Maybe Janko should reconsider Kenya, maybe for a place like Jamaica ;)

tennis_pro 10-18-2012 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 6962533)
I am still amazed there are people who seem oblivious to the fact that in all sports today atleast 65% of the international competitors (even the bottom feeders) are heavily doped. It would be nice if this wasnt the case, but it is.

If it turned out that Federer (and only Federer) was doping, I'd lose 100% respect to him and at the same time appreciate every other member of the top 10 (especially Nadal).

But if the test showed that everyone in the top 10 (or generally at the top - mostly the top 4) where dopers, I'd consider stepping away from watching tennis.

Rozroz 10-18-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_pro (Post 6962540)
I'd consider stepping away from watching tennis.

so how will you pass your time? ;)

veroniquem 10-18-2012 09:25 AM

Yeah serve fests are SO captivating :roll: If you really want tennis to nosedive in the ratings, speed up the courts to the max. Good idea :???: Then R.I.P. tennis as a source of entertainment. :mad:
The only way to go is medium paced for most events (players can use all their weapons: offense and defense) + keep some extreme slow and fast to spice things up and for some good old fashioned contrast.
About doping issues, chances are they all do stuff to improve their perfs, endurance, speed and so on. Pro sport and idealism tend to not mix well especially when a huge amount of money is at stake. For the most naive among us: welcome to the dark side of human nature.

BrooklynNY 10-18-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_pro (Post 6962540)
If it turned out that Federer (and only Federer) was doping, I'd lose 100% respect to him and at the same time appreciate every other member of the top 10 (especially Nadal).

But if the test showed that everyone in the top 10 (or generally at the top - mostly the top 4) where dopers, I'd consider stepping away from watching tennis.

This is exactly why tennis/ITF/ATP have a serious conflict of interest on their hands, and why would consider not making cases like these public. i.e Agassi's positive(doesn't matter the substance) being swept under the rug.


The same people in charge of busting their stars for potential cheating, are the same people in charge with Marketing the current stars.

NadalAgassi 10-18-2012 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_pro (Post 6962540)
If it turned out that Federer (and only Federer) was doping, I'd lose 100% respect to him and at the same time appreciate every other member of the top 10 (especially Nadal).

But if the test showed that everyone in the top 10 (or generally at the top - mostly the top 4) where dopers, I'd consider stepping away from watching tennis.

Doping has been widespread in practically all sports for years. I dont believe tennis players use as many drugs as say a weightlifter or track athlete as there would be drawbacks to being too big or muscular, but I do believe the majority use some form like most sports today. I dont fault the athletes, I fault the incompetent chemists on the good side who cant keep up with the bad chemists. Maybe if sports got some smarter people and better scientists working for the good guys the doping problem in sports could be eradicated.

veroniquem 10-18-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynNY (Post 6962550)
This is exactly why tennis/ITF/ATP have a serious conflict of interest on their hands, and why would consider not making cases like these public. i.e Agassi's positive(doesn't matter the substance) being swept under the rug.


The same people in charge of busting their stars for potential cheating, are the same people in charge with Marketing the current stars.

Except, Agassi's case had nothing to do with doping. The (recreational) drug affected his game entirely negatively (he couldn't win a match in that period). Maybe the tennis officials are bright enough to understand that and not treat the case the same way they would doping.

librarysteg 10-18-2012 09:38 AM

Aside from tennis, I'm not much of a sports fan so I don't follow any of this anywhere else. What are the big arguments against just allowing some of these drugs? Obviously steroids have long term health risks, but it sounds like some of the newer methods don't and an argument could be made in favor of allowing them as part of whatever health regimens are in place with diets, vitamins, etc. In a perfect world I wouldn't want this, but if it's what most people are doing maybe it's better to bring it out of the closet and reconsider some of the regulations.

tennis_pro 10-18-2012 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 6962543)
so how will you pass your time? ;)

That's an excellent question.:)

I'm still losing interest in tennis as we speak (too many grinders, surfaces too slow), though but it's a slow process.

If it turned out that tennis players were dopers, first and foremost I'd hope that they were cleaned out, never allowed to play a single match again and new strickt rules were introduced.

ruerooo 10-18-2012 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 6962415)
Tennis is and should be primarily a technical rather than a physical sport.

That's so stupid. What -- according to whom, you? Is the ATP consulting you?

:roll:

It is and always has been both, and moreover has always been classified as an *endurance* sport.

BrooklynNY 10-18-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 6962568)
Except, Agassi's case had nothing to do with doping. The (recreational) drug affected his game entirely negatively (he couldn't win a match in that period). Maybe the tennis officials are bright enough to understand that and not treat the case the same way they would doping.

It has to do with making exceptions to a rule, and being willing to cover up for a star. Which seems like the Jelly to Doping's Peanut Butter if a scandal ever reached that point.


Maybe they aren't - considering how Gasquet and Hingis faced disciplinary action, for the (recreational) drug Cocaine.

Maybe there is favoritism at play. Maybe.

LaneMyer 10-18-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by librarysteg (Post 6962569)
Aside from tennis, I'm not much of a sports fan so I don't follow any of this anywhere else. What are the big arguments against just allowing some of these drugs? Obviously steroids have long term health risks, but it sounds like some of the newer methods don't and an argument could be made in favor of allowing them as part of whatever health regimens are in place with diets, vitamins, etc. In a perfect world I wouldn't want this, but if it's what most people are doing maybe it's better to bring it out of the closet and reconsider some of the regulations.

well I'd suspect the major reason is many of these new 'designer' PEDs are new and while they seem like they're safer than your hardcore anabolic steroids no one really knows. I mean allergy medication like Seldane(sp?) was though to be safe too and later discovered to lead to heart trouble. So if the ATP allowed a substance to be used and it turned out later not to be safe - hello lawsuits for negligence. That said, there's always some hypocrisy with this stuff as a basic cortisone shot is a performance enhancer, and I'm not sure how prevalent they are in tennis, but in most sports they are and widely deemed perfectly fine.

veroniquem 10-18-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynNY (Post 6962642)
It has to do with making exceptions to a rule, and being willing to cover up for a star. Which seems like the Jelly to Doping's Peanut Butter if a scandal ever reached that point.


Maybe they aren't - considering how Gasquet and Hingis faced disciplinary action, for the (recreational) drug Cocaine.

Maybe there is favoritism at play. Maybe.

There is a difference between crystal meth and cocaine. There is no way cm is gonna improve your perf, it's almost guaranteed to hamper it whereas cocaine is a substance well known for its efficiency at "masking" usage of actual doping products.

smash hit 10-18-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 6962568)
Except, Agassi's case had nothing to do with doping. The (recreational) drug affected his game entirely negatively (he couldn't win a match in that period). Maybe the tennis officials are bright enough to understand that and not treat the case the same way they would doping.

Just a thought with regard to Agassi. People seem to differentiate between PED's etc. and recreational drugs. I don't really buy this view. Many people will agree that much of the game of tennis is related to mental attitude. Agassi himself said that the "drugs made him feel euphoric, they swept away every negative thought, he had never felt so alive, so hopeful and he never felt such energy" I feel sure that these positive feelings would go quite a way in enhancing performance.

pound cat 10-18-2012 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennis_pro (Post 6962540)
If it turned out that Federer (and only Federer) was doping, I'd lose 100% respect to him and at the same time appreciate every other member of the top 10 (especially Nadal).

But if the test showed that everyone in the top 10 (or generally at the top - mostly the top 4) where dopers, I'd consider stepping away from watching tennis.

I hope your second sport is NHL hockey. You might be spending a lot of nights watching Youtube.


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