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-   -   Del Potro doesn't pat the dog. check out his girly WTA push strokes. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=443997)

FrisbeeFool 10-25-2012 11:34 AM

Del Potro doesn't pat the dog. check out his girly WTA push strokes.
 
Del Potro's racket face isn't as closed as some of the other top guys on his takeback. He uses a more traditional grip and doesn't get into as much of a pat the dog position because his racket face stays a little more open. He has pretty flat strokes and maximum extension.

He still has all the modern upper body rotation and racket head speed on his forehand. He still has that modern finish around his body.

There's a great article on tennis player.net about his forehand. If you're not a member, just go to YouTube type in del potro forehand and I think you'll see what I'm talking about.

Edit: The topic of the thread is a sardonic joke, meant to get people's attention. Maybe it was in bad taste. Yes the thread title is a joke. Read the substance of the first post above.

sureshs 10-25-2012 11:37 AM

Del Potro is a real man and doesn't need the fancy stuff. Only problem is his hard hitting probably resulted in his wrist injuries.

WildVolley 10-25-2012 11:38 AM

Del Potro doesn't have much of a pat-the-dog on his stroke, but he also doesn't swing WTA-style.

Here's a good blog post on the Del Potro style swing.

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/

Cheetah 10-25-2012 11:40 AM

You're calling Del Potro's strokes 'girly'?

sureshs 10-25-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 6974783)
You're calling Del Potro's strokes 'girly'?

I think it was supposed to be sarcasm.

FrisbeeFool 10-25-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 6974779)
Del Potro doesn't have much of a pat-the-dog on his stroke, but he also doesn't swing WTA-style.

Here's a good blog post on the Del Potro style swing.

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 6974783)
You're calling Del Potro's strokes 'girly'?

I was attempting a sardonic attack on what passes for conventional wisdom on these forums. I'm not calling his strokes girly. I don't think they're WTA style at all. If you read my full post, you'll see I noted Delpo's upper body rotation and modern finish on his forehand.

I was mocking all the MTM folks who say extension on groundstrokes doesn't happen on the ATP, and it's an outmoded approach that still hangs on, on the WTA side.

LeeD 10-25-2012 11:56 AM

DelPo is a tall guy.
He doesn't get too many real high balls, to him, compared to a Rochus, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Hewitt.
Doesn't it stand to reason his grip is closer to E, rather than strong SW's?
We gotta pay attention to the special attributes of the player's we're analysing.

Cheetah 10-25-2012 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool (Post 6974822)
I was attempting a sardonic attack on what passes for conventional wisdom on these forums. I'm not calling his strokes girly. I don't think they're WTA style at all. If you read my full post, you'll see I noted Delpo's upper body rotation and modern finish on his forehand.

I was mocking all the MTM folks who say extension on groundstrokes doesn't happen on the ATP, and it's an outmoded approach that still hangs on, on the WTA side.

Oh. ok. got it. no prob.

Do the MTM guys say there's no extension on groundstrokes?

WildVolley 10-25-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool (Post 6974822)
I was attempting a sardonic attack on what passes for conventional wisdom on these forums. I'm not calling his strokes girly. I don't think they're WTA style at all. If you read my full post, you'll see I noted Delpo's upper body rotation and modern finish on his forehand.

I was mocking all the MTM folks who say extension on groundstrokes doesn't happen on the ATP, and it's an outmoded approach that still hangs on, on the WTA side.

Yeah, I sort of got that you were being sarcastic.

I've never understood the difference between the "push" and "pull" strokes that used to be argued about here. However, there definitely is a WTA take-back, and Soderling is about the only ATP player I know of who seems to have it, though the rest of his stroke is not really a traditional WTA thing.

At this point, I'm not big on the whole extension or non-extension argument. I think that it is best to just try to replicate the movement patterns of the top pros (or at least one who you think plays well and you could adapt) and try to ignore too much talk about what is happening that isn't based on what you can see.

5263 10-25-2012 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 6974850)

Do the MTM guys say there's no extension on groundstrokes?

No, so guess he is trying to stir up interest in his thread or demonstrating a lack
on knowledge on MTM.

FrisbeeFool 10-25-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6974830)
DelPo is a tall guy.
He doesn't get too many real high balls, to him, compared to a Rochus, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Hewitt.
Doesn't it stand to reason his grip is closer to E, rather than strong SW's?
We gotta pay attention to the special attributes of the player's we're analysing.

I took lessons from a guy that was 6 foot 2 and had a similar grip. I'm six feet tall and use a similar grip. As has been stated many times, some smaller WTA players uses flatter strokes and have similar grips.

I've seen a lot of of old guys that are five eight and five nine that use similar grips. If you understand the concepts of your strike zone, taking the ball early, and moving back when necessary it won't be a problem.

Federer is what? 6 foot 2? on his forehand his hand is more behind the handle than under it. His backhand grip is dare I say it? almost traditional? It's about the same as Sampras, but a little more extreme than a guy like Edberg.

LeeD 10-25-2012 12:47 PM

Fed is 6'1". He jumps for high balls, choosing to pummel a winner over rallying over and over.
Your coach played old days, less hop on the ball.
YOU don't play 6.0 level tennis, so you face some slices, some flats, some sidespins, as well as 80% topspins, none nearly ATP pro level.
If you start looking at old guys, you'll see some conti forehands too.

FrisbeeFool 10-25-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 6974850)
Oh. ok. got it. no prob.

Do the MTM guys say there's no extension on groundstrokes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 6974899)
No, so guess he is trying to stir up interest in his thread or demonstrating a lack
on knowledge on MTM.

It depends on the day and their mood. A couple times I've gotten them to admit that their is some extension. Other days you have Limpinhitter calling people flat-earthers or 5163 claiming Robert Landsdorp and John Yandell don't understand the modern game.

With Juniors it a huge problem you see a lot. A lot of juniors just brush the ball with a glancing blow, creating those loopy moonballs and don't hit through the ball enough.

5263 has ruined countless threads. As soon as any wording happens about hitting out towards the target. He shows up and says no that's wrong. There's this new modern way to play where you pull up and across the target line. I personally think this kind of wording confuses people. It results in people finishing across their body without the good extension that should happen before the end of the stroke.

Lately I've been using the term long follow-through, It's a little more vague and amorphous like a lot of the MTM cult language. I'm not sure if the terminology of a long follow through will pass muster with the modern tennis police. We will see.

FrisbeeFool 10-25-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6974923)
Fed is 6'1". He jumps for high balls, choosing to pummel a winner over rallying over and over.
Your coach played old days, less hop on the ball.
YOU don't play 6.0 level tennis, so you face some slices, some flats, some sidespins, as well as 80% topspins, none nearly ATP pro level.
If you start looking at old guys, you'll see some conti forehands too.

My coach played for university of texas and pro doubles in the early to mid 2000's. His coach played in the old days.

A lot of the oldschool advice is still applicable to the modern game.

LeeD 10-25-2012 12:55 PM

Not wild about LONG followthru. We can agree about trying to hit thru 2.5 tennis balls, I think. What happens afterwards is less important. We don't need to wrap the hitting arm around the body all the way to the back fence, do we?
Just like a serve, after we hit the ball, we don't need to extend the followthru so the racket goes past behind the player, do we?
Stop the followthru sometime after hitting the ball, so we can recover and get ready for the next ball.

LeeD 10-25-2012 12:56 PM

and the reason he didn't make the pros is ...???
He might have hit too flat, too conservative, meaning too inconsistent, compared to his peers.

FrisbeeFool 10-25-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6974942)
and the reason he didn't make the pros is ...???
He might have hit too flat, too conservative, meaning too inconsistent, compared to his peers.

My coach emphasized extension in his teaching. He also has modern topspin groundstrokes. Both things are possible. You've been brainwashed by the MTMers LeeD!

Roger Feder best player of all time. Ends countless points with flat penetrating groundies. I personally think all styles can work at the highest of levels. I enjoy watching relatively flat groundstrokes and heavy topspin groundstrokes. I just get annoyed with all the MTM folks ruining these boards, saying there is one approach to modern tennis that works, theirs. How many successful modern players has 5263 developed? Look at coaches like Lansdorp and Macci and Salzenstein that emphasize extension in their teaching. I think they have a good record developing modern players.

sureshs 10-25-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 6974941)
We can agree about trying to hit thru 2.5 tennis balls, I think.

Yes, that is the number that comes from calculations too. I think it was rounded up to 3 which also nicely matched the number of balls in a can, and then continued to be used as visual aid. However, the can should be somewhat flexible, like a plastic tube, so that it can arrange itself on a gentle curve.

LeeD 10-25-2012 01:07 PM

I think old school flat forehands can go thru 5 tennis balls.
Also, Nadal's buggywhip might go thru ONE tennis ball.
Yes, it all can work.
But don't forget, what a 6'4.5" guy does is not applicable to any of us, even at 6'1". I"m 5'11", so no dwarf. A strong SW grip works just fine.

5263 10-25-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrisbeeFool (Post 6974931)
He shows up and says no that's wrong. There's this new modern way to play where you pull up and across the target line. I personally think this kind of wording confuses people.

Clearly it has been confusing for you and I guess since you keep bringing up
MTM and 5263, I guess you want that in your thread. Up until that, I was
avoiding posting in this thread, and how as usual, the terms have been poorly
worded. I'm happy to avoid this train wreck, wta push thread, But I ask you not
to reference MTM or me, if you prefer not to be corrected.


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