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-   -   Questions for Irvin, 50/50 method on Exo3 crosses (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=444066)

mikeler 10-26-2012 07:26 AM

Questions for Irvin, 50/50 method on Exo3 crosses
 
Irvin,

I dug up your YouTube video last night which was terrific. I did it with success and will probably only use that method from now on.

Question 1: I made sure to line up the strings properly with another racket that I had already strung because Prince specifies the cross tie-off locations on a particular side of the racket. Do you always use these holes or is it OK to use the tie-off holes on the opposite side?

Question 2: Do you ever mark the starting location on the racket to make sure you get the tie-off holes to match? If so, what do you use? I'd like to mark it somehow but don't want to alter my new babies too much.

bugeyed 10-26-2012 08:13 AM

I believe the tie off side is dictated by the side O ports? The racquet should be labeled "Short side", so use that as your reference.

Cheers,
kev

mikeler 10-26-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyed (Post 6976221)
I believe the tie off side is dictated by the side O ports? The racquet should be labeled "Short side", so use that as your reference.

Cheers,
kev


The tie off sides are clearly delineated with writing next to the string holes. Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly, but it seems like if you don't start your initial crosses in the right spot, you could potentially tie off on the opposite side of the racket which may or may not even be an issue.

jrxl 10-26-2012 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 6976310)
The tie off sides are clearly delineated with writing next to the string holes. Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly, but it seems like if you don't start your initial crosses in the right spot, you could potentially tie off on the opposite side of the racket which may or may not even be an issue.

Nope. For you to "start in the wrong spot", you would have to be off one hole... which would mean the string would pull right through the O-ports. The O-ports design makes it impossible to be off one hole. So no need to worry, if your crosses are in, it will always lead to the right tie off.

bugeyed 10-26-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 6976310)
The tie off sides are clearly delineated with writing next to the string holes. Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly, but it seems like if you don't start your initial crosses in the right spot, you could potentially tie off on the opposite side of the racket which may or may not even be an issue.

If you don't start your crosses at the right spot, you will run into trouble when you get to the O ports. O ports are not symmetrical & the crosses must start on the proper side to to match to O port pattern.

P.S. If you start the crosses properly in the middle of the racquet (50/50) , you will always end up at the correct side to tie off. Always!
Cheers,
kev

mikeler 10-26-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrxl (Post 6976367)
Nope. For you to "start in the wrong spot", you would have to be off one hole... which would mean the string would pull right through the O-ports. The O-ports design makes it impossible to be off one hole. So no need to worry, if your crosses are in, it will always lead to the right tie off.

So basically wherever I start it will always be "right". That is what I thought. Of course, I might have to do 8 crosses on 1 side and then 10 on the other side, which I would like to call the 44.4/55.5 method (patent pending).


Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeyed (Post 6976371)
If you don't start your crosses at the right spot, you will run into trouble when you get to the O ports. O ports are not symmetrical & the crosses must start on the proper side to to match to O port pattern.

P.S. If you start the crosses properly in the middle of the racquet (50/50) , you will always end up at the correct side to tie off. Always!
Cheers,
kev

What I'm getting at is what if I start one cross off. Then it should still work but not technically be 50/50.

bugeyed 10-26-2012 10:45 AM

I think 44.4/55.5 may be close. You're still missing .1 somethings. It will take more measurements & some advanced math to nail it down. You don't want to name it after yourself? If you don't someone will!
Don't do anything yet, 'cause we haven't heard from Irvin.

Cheers,
kev

Irvin 10-26-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 6976429)
So basically wherever I start it will always be "right". That is what I thought. Of course, I might have to do 8 crosses on 1 side and then 10 on the other side, which I would like to call the 44.4/55.5 method (patent pending).




What I'm getting at is what if I start one cross off. Then it should still work but not technically be 50/50.

Technically you are right. prince makes where to start your crosses so you will be able to get the strings right in the side O ports. If there are no side O ports it doesn't matter. if you have your short side on the wrong side no problem run in the top cross with the short side and you are good to go.

Using the 2 piece 50/50 method you want to start on the two strings above and below the pivot point of the turn-table. The way the first two string will lay in the correct side of the first O port without any additional help or tool. Maybe it should be called a Top & Bottom method.

mikeler 10-26-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 6976532)
Technically you are right. prince makes where to start your crosses so you will be able to get the strings right in the side O ports. If there are no side O ports it doesn't matter. if you have your short side on the wrong side no problem run in the top cross with the short side and you are good to go.

This is what I figured.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 6976532)
Using the 2 piece 50/50 method you want to start on the two strings above and below the pivot point of the turn-table. The way the first two string will lay in the correct side of the first O port without any additional help or tool. Maybe it should be called a Top & Bottom method.

Makes total sense since the whole point of the exercise is to make pulling all the crosses easier. Thanks for the answers, have a great weekend.

COPEY 10-27-2012 10:23 PM

Hey Mikeler, not trying to steer you away from the 50/50, but I was curious to know if you tried the s-hook method yet? I personally prefer it to the 50/50, but some don't.

mikeler 10-28-2012 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COPEY (Post 6978708)
Hey Mikeler, not trying to steer you away from the 50/50, but I was curious to know if you tried the s-hook method yet? I personally prefer it to the 50/50, but some don't.

I did see the pen cap video and I saw a thumbnail for a related video on the S-hook but I never played it. I'll check it out, thanks.

Irvin 10-28-2012 05:14 AM

The S hook isn't a bad method at all especially if you like doing one piece. But with Prince rackets it may be hard to run in the top one or two crosses with the short side and avoid sharp sections of frame on the long side. Therefore you will probably have to tie out the short side outside main.

I have never used the S hook method but I would think with the pin grommets the hook could damage the grommets.

COPEY 10-28-2012 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvin (Post 6978908)
I have never used the S hook method but I would think with the pin grommets the hook could damage the grommets.

Nope. My son has two Ozone 7s, two kids I teach, between the two of them, they have 3 Ozone 7s, my wife has an Ozone 4, and another kid I taught this summer had (broke the frame) an EXO 3 Blue. I've strung them all multiple times using the S-hook, including other customers with different Prince frames with ports. No damage...not even close.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Prince racquets, particularly the ported ones, but hey, to each his/her own.

mikeler 10-30-2012 06:06 AM

I strung up another racket last night with this method. I started at the point where I had the straightest pull to the tensioner and it worked out that I had exactly 9 strings on each side as expected. This is so much easier than going top down so it will be my stringing method going forward.

A Defenseless Creature 10-30-2012 06:22 AM

The challenge with the 50/50 method is getting the center crosses to be consistent with the others in regard to tension. By using a stringmeter you will see that they measure several pounds lower unless you increase the tension on the center crosses at your starting location. Inconsistency on center strings can lead to unwanted performance issues.

mikeler 10-30-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Defenseless Creature (Post 6983591)
The challenge with the 50/50 method is getting the center crosses to be consistent with the others in regard to tension. By using a stringmeter you will see that they measure several pounds lower unless you increase the tension on the center crosses at your starting location. Inconsistency on center strings can lead to unwanted performance issues.


How is that different than stringing top down?

struggle 10-30-2012 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Defenseless Creature (Post 6983591)
The challenge with the 50/50 method is getting the center crosses to be consistent with the others in regard to tension. By using a stringmeter you will see that they measure several pounds lower unless you increase the tension on the center crosses at your starting location. Inconsistency on center strings can lead to unwanted performance issues.

so then the same could be said for the center mains, i guess....???

i'm not buying it, but i'll listen further.

Irvin 10-30-2012 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Defenseless Creature (Post 6983591)
The challenge with the 50/50 method is getting the center crosses to be consistent with the others in regard to tension. By using a stringmeter you will see that they measure several pounds lower unless you increase the tension on the center crosses at your starting location. Inconsistency on center strings can lead to unwanted performance issues.

OK and the problem with using a string meter to measure crosses is that is not what it was destined for. The shorter the string gets the more force required to deflect the string. Because that tool was designed for mains the cross tensions have a lot more error in the calculations. I would not use that tool in a method to which it was not designed as the basis for your argument.

If you think there is any method that produces a more consistent string tension than the 50/50 method I would love to hear about it. I personally don't think such a method exists. But if this thread can remain civil I would love to discuss the pros and cons of any and all methods.

I feel there are only two disadvantages to the 50/50 method:

1) You have 4 knots
2) Stringing from the inside out (or up and down) is a little more difficult because the stringbed is stiffer.

Why not string the crosses from left to right like you do the crosses top to bottom? Why not string the crosses from the inside out like you do the mains from the center out?

struggle 10-30-2012 09:05 AM

^^ all that

A Defenseless Creature 10-30-2012 09:59 AM

If you use the stringmeter to measure adjacent cross strings and compare the results to one another it is reasonable to assume that the tension will not vary tremendously. However, the two cross strings where you start the 50/50 method will measure considerably lower than adjacent cross strings. This signifies that tension is being lost in the starting process when using 50/50 and guess where it is being lost? Right in the most important area of the racquet.

With all do respect to Irvin, please let us know where you have found any documentation indicating the stringmeter was designed exclusively for use on mains and not crosses? I'd like to read more about it.


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