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-   -   local grievance, 1st time? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=444424)

walton123 10-30-2012 05:41 PM

local grievance, 1st time?
 
As captain this is 1st time I am dealing w/a local grievance against a player on my team.
To date we rec'd complaint and were asked to respond back. Next I was informed that this was sent to grievance committee. How do I know and/or can I find out who is on this committee?
I do not feel the complaint which accuses our player in a timed match situation of stalling and not adhering to timed match procedures has validity and believe it should be dismissed. I actually believe it never should have gotten this far .........this type of thing makes USTA play unpleasant and creates work for captains/players.
Any expert grievance handlers out there..............?

JoelDali 10-30-2012 05:44 PM






chatt_town 10-30-2012 05:51 PM

I'd be willing to bet that a good portion of these are no good. Many of the people that file them are sore losers. :) The only thing they have left is to try and pencil whip you. I see quite a bit of this in Alta.



Quote:

Originally Posted by walton123 (Post 6984772)
As captain this is 1st time I am dealing w/a local grievance against a player on my team.
To date we rec'd complaint and were asked to respond back. Next I was informed that this was sent to grievance committee. How do I know and/or can I find out who is on this committee?
I do not feel the complaint which accuses our player in a timed match situation of stalling and not adhering to timed match procedures has validity and believe it should be dismissed. I actually believe it never should have gotten this far .........this type of thing makes USTA play unpleasant and creates work for captains/players.
Any expert grievance handlers out there..............?


walton123 10-30-2012 05:59 PM

1st time grievance.......
 
Thanks chatt town, I agree.
I am most miffed that in this case the local league coordinators did not null/void/dismiss the complaint without merit before it even got to an official grievance. I feel the LLC's have some jurisdiction to shut this stuff down sooner than later..........am I right?

dizzlmcwizzl 10-30-2012 07:23 PM

I would not worry about it ....

Most likely scenario ... the complaint is without merit and there is no evidence to prove such a thing anyway. The committee makes a show to discourage other offenders and records the name of your player for posterity in case there are other complaints in the future.

Worst case scenario ... your player was playing games with the time. How is the other captain going to prove this? The only worry I would have is if this player has had multiple complaints about this issue.

Bottom line for your grievance committee ... there is no real harm in saying they are considering the complaint. In fact, if word gets out maybe it has a deterrent effect on others. But there is no way they have any hard evidence to make such a decision and award a defaulted court to your opponent based on one complaint alone.

NTRPolice 10-30-2012 11:45 PM

Check your "local" USTA page. You should be able to find the names of the grievance committee members there. If not, their names should be on the paperwork.

Also, im going to say that almost all "grievances" are denied anyway.

The grievance process is a highly legalistic process and people forget this. If you cant prove your case in a real court of law you wont be able to make much ground in the USTA appeal system.

Unless your player was cited by an official timekeeper or umpire they arnt going to get very far. They will almost certainly need "official" testimony to even have a chance.

Even if the whole team just writes emails saying how this player took extra time to towel off between points, was slow at retrieving balls, and took an extra 30 sec per change over it wont do anything. That is not nearly enough for a grievance to stick.



Unless of course your player did something way out of line, like driving to a nearby corner store to get more water in the middle of the match...

walton123 10-31-2012 05:31 AM

Thanks :)
 
Thanks NTRPolice & dizzlmcwizzi.
I feel as you do but just have not yet been through this so am finding it a major pain........the complaint/grievance was filed by another player, match not officiated. It really becomes a "she said/she said" scenario.
I will be glad when it is over. Small community and I know all the players/captains/tennis club folks so it is uncomfortable.
Love tennis but not this stuff........happy volunteering!
Your comments made me feel better :)

Cindysphinx 10-31-2012 05:37 AM

I guess I see this differently.

Stalling is a big no-no in timed matches. IMHO, it is straight-up cheating. When I am leading in a timed match, I play at a normal pace -- sometimes a little quicker than normal. I do not wish to cheat, to win by cheating, or even be accused of cheating. By focusing on winning points one at a time instead of running out the clock, I feel I maximize my chances of winning.

Now. I have seen blatant stalling by opponents. In that match, my partner and I lost a long first set 6-7. From that point forward, our opponents began stalling. This began with a bathroom break. Then they began taking a conference between each point. I was literally standing there waiting to serve while they stood with their backs to me talking between points. I considered blasting a serve right at them, but thought better of it.

As a captain, however, I would take seriously any grievance filed against one of my players. If I were you, I would call the player and her partner and ask them what happened. There are some players who believe stalling is "smart strategy," and as captain I would want to disabuse them of that notion.

On the whole, I support the sorts of grievances filed in the OP. There are some people who are chronic cheaters (stalling, line calls) or chronic poor sports. The only way to get their attention and makes them think twice is with a grievance, even an unsuccessful one. Once a pattern of grievances has been established, the league can finally act.

floridatennisdude 10-31-2012 05:44 AM

^^^agree with the last paragraph. They likely don't care if this grievance is upheld. They just want it on the record to persuade the actions to not happen again in the future.

They'd need video evidence to prove stalling. Very doubtful they have it. Outside o video proof, the whole claim is he said vs he said.

JoelDali 10-31-2012 06:07 AM

Every team I've been on has always pushed this tactic. Everyone knows this shortcut to winning matches. Why deny it? Everyone slows down when the clock is ticking. I personally do not do this because I usually win handily anyway and don't need to resort to this.

Sandbagging and playing the clock is feverishly accepted and encouraged.

Anything to win.

4.0 USTA Glory and Rec Tennis Immortality.

Cindysphinx 10-31-2012 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoelDali (Post 6985451)
Every team I've been on has always pushed this tactic. Everyone knows this shortcut to winning matches. Why deny it? Everyone slows down when the clock is ticking. I personally do not do this because I usually win handily anyway and don't need to resort to this.

Sandbagging and playing the clock is feverishly accepted and encouraged.

Anything to win.

4.0 USTA Glory and Rec Tennis Immortality.

I don't know how serious you are, but I disagree that most people push this tactic.

Over the years, I have had a few partners suggest that we take our time when we are ahead and the clock is running down. I reply, "Let's just play." I then go stand at my position for the next point. If my partner wants to stand at the bench swigging water and toweling off while three people wait for her, she can suffer the weight of the angry glares from the opponents all by herself.

Here's the thing. If we are really far ahead, what is the point in stalling? We are likely the better team and we will win if we just play.

If we are barely ahead, stalling backfires. I have had opponents try to stall, only to have us reel off a few points and suddenly pull ahead. Better to disregard the clock and just play, I think.

sundaypunch 10-31-2012 07:20 AM

In timed sports, this is exactly what you do when you are ahead. We aren't used to tennis being a timed sport. It changes the entire dynamic of the game.

Some people will think it is smart to use every second allowed if they are trying to run out the clock. Going beyond this is cheating as Cindy said. It is no different that hooking on line calls.

Everything comes back to players acting as their own officials. If you feel someone is cheating, a grievance is really your only option. It is probably not to get the results voided, but to get it on the other players record. I would guess the problem would disappear if they get several of them.

JoelDali 10-31-2012 07:21 AM

There ya go. Proves my point. Most seasoned USTA GOAT players are aware of this rule and use it.

It's no big deal to admit it.

walton123 10-31-2012 07:33 AM

more info.........
 
for what it is worth - our player with only a few minutes to play to break tie of 2nd set (she won 1st set) stopped to look at the rule sheet in order to determine what to do next - time out play one more point for winner of set 2 and if she lost play additional point(sudden death) to determine match. complaint is based on accusation that breaking continuous play to confirm rules was stalling......
I understand the "concept" of filing grievances to get things on record but at what point does someone having a bad day on the court waste a whole lot of other peoples time..........

tennis_ocd 10-31-2012 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walton123 (Post 6985578)
for what it is worth - our player with only a few minutes to play to break tie of 2nd set (she won 1st set) stopped to look at the rule sheet in order to determine what to do next - time out play one more point for winner of set 2 and if she lost play additional point(sudden death) to determine match. complaint is based on accusation that breaking continuous play to confirm rules was stalling......
I understand the "concept" of filing grievances to get things on record but at what point does someone having a bad day on the court waste a whole lot of other peoples time..........

with time expiring she stopped playing a tight 2nd set???

sundaypunch 10-31-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walton123 (Post 6985578)
for what it is worth - our player with only a few minutes to play to break tie of 2nd set (she won 1st set) stopped to look at the rule sheet in order to determine what to do next - time out play one more point for winner of set 2 and if she lost play additional point(sudden death) to determine match. complaint is based on accusation that breaking continuous play to confirm rules was stalling......
I understand the "concept" of filing grievances to get things on record but at what point does someone having a bad day on the court waste a whole lot of other peoples time..........

Well, it is stalling if she only had to play one or two points to determine the match. I would be irritated also if I were the opponent.

Sakkijarvi 10-31-2012 02:35 PM

IMO the grievance thing is a complete waste of time. In our league, the coordinator is a full time employee of the club with the team known as the most blatant cheaters, examples of poor sportsmanship, you can't make up some of the stuff they pull.

In any case, the same characters get away with the same stuff year after year and there is no way to police these clowns except personal, on the spot action using the usual methods.

beernutz 10-31-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walton123 (Post 6985578)
for what it is worth - our player with only a few minutes to play to break tie of 2nd set (she won 1st set) stopped to look at the rule sheet in order to determine what to do next - time out play one more point for winner of set 2 and if she lost play additional point(sudden death) to determine match. complaint is based on accusation that breaking continuous play to confirm rules was stalling......
I understand the "concept" of filing grievances to get things on record but at what point does someone having a bad day on the court waste a whole lot of other peoples time..........

So the other team is arguing that they could have played a 7 point tiebreak in the few minutes of time remaining?

walton123 10-31-2012 04:09 PM

thanks for all the feedback.........
 
yes, beernutz - exactly..........
1st tiebreak for 2nd set began and tied then time ran completely out........that is when the stories diverge but the other player (the one filing the grievance) left the court.........

Cindysphinx 10-31-2012 04:26 PM

Huh?

What are the rules in your league? Our rules say that if the players get to 6-6 and then have a tied score in the set tiebreak when time lapses, they would play a sudden death point to determine the winner.

If your player stopped between points to consult the rules while match time remained *and* if she took longer than 20 seconds to do so, then she violated the Continuous Play Rule. If I were on a grievance committee and I heard this, I would rule in favor of your opponent.

If your player wishes to consult the rules, she had best do this on a changeover or set break. No way should one player lose her chance to compete because your players can't be bothered to know the rules when they step onto the court.


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