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-   -   For the few that will care - Mazda planning new RX-7 for 2017 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=444759)

FD3S 11-03-2012 04:41 PM

For the few that will care - Mazda planning new RX-7 for 2017
 
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...the-next-rx-7/

This news made my day, as my username will attest to. I've always been a big fan of the RX-7 in all its incarnations, despite the practicality of owning one being slim to nil.

Yeah, it had horrendous gas mileage, a tendency to drink oil like there's no tomorrow, the literal need to rev the engine high (because let's face it - the rotary engine was meant to be DRIVEN) and was overall expensive to maintain. But it was also one of the finest handling sports cars on the planet, with an motor that was butter smooth throughout the entire range, and the auto geek in my is rejoicing at the rotary being given another shot even if it is aimed for five years down the road.

Pistons? Valves? Give me rotor housings and apex seals any day :D

Say Chi Sin Lo 11-03-2012 05:22 PM

2009 Mazdaspeed 3 owner here, and I'm excited about the news as well.

I don't mind the 2017 release date, because by then, I hope I'll be financially capable to purchase a second impractical no-nonsense sports car.

FD3S 11-03-2012 05:29 PM

^ Knew I recognized that name from somewhere! I lurk on M3F and thought I'd seen your handle somewhere before. Do most of my posting on bcmazda3 though, currently driving an 05 GT. Great little car!

Say Chi Sin Lo 11-03-2012 05:38 PM

I won't lie, I considered the RX-8 R3 too, but there's just a lot of value in the MS3.

FD3S 11-03-2012 06:08 PM

Not a bad call - as good as the RX-8 is, it shares a lot of issues with the 7 and adds in a notable lack of torque. By contrast, the only complaints I've heard about the MS3 revolved around the interior trim and torque steer, with the former being a question of taste and the latter being a controllable byproduct of a turbo'd FWD. For the value to money ratio though, I don't think there's a better car.

(Now we wait for GTI enthusiasts to come out of the woodwork.)

Say Chi Sin Lo 11-03-2012 06:16 PM

Ain't no torque steer if you've got both hands on the wheel like you're supposed to anyway.

1st gen's interior was simple and classy.

2nd gen's interior is like a spaceship.

RX-8 was lacking in straight-line performance, but there's something to be said about winding the engine up to 9,000rpm like it's nothing. :) On top of that, there's not a single car that was going to out-handle the RX-8 for the money.

FD3S 11-03-2012 06:34 PM

Yeah, I was always taught to keep my hands on the wheel at all times, so I was curious when the 'issue' came up - when I figured out what it was, I just kinda shrugged and thought 'different strokes'.

You've nailed it on the head - the RX-8 was the best handling car in multiple segments, if I recall correctly. One of the road tests on TTAC was basically almost all non-stop praise until the tester looked and saw he was getting 16 MPG, which in all fairness is pretty horrendous.

Still, that's part of the trade-off for the Wankel, eh? Anything with the Renesis isn't going to have beating its competition off the line as an end-all goal, anyway, and besides; it's not like the RX-8 was totally slow, either. It had enough power for its needs, but if you just wanted a straight quarter-mile car there were better options out there.

Say Chi Sin Lo 11-03-2012 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FD3S (Post 6993159)
Yeah, I was always taught to keep my hands on the wheel at all times, so I was curious when the 'issue' came up - when I figured out what it was, I just kinda shrugged and thought 'different strokes'.

You've nailed it on the head - the RX-8 was the best handling car in multiple segments, if I recall correctly. One of the road tests on TTAC was basically almost all non-stop praise until the tester looked and saw he was getting 16 MPG, which in all fairness is pretty horrendous.

Still, that's part of the trade-off for the Wankel, eh? Anything with the Renesis isn't going to have beating its competition off the line as an end-all goal, anyway, and besides; it's not like the RX-8 was totally slow, either. It had enough power for its needs, but if you just wanted a straight quarter-mile car there were better options out there.

Where's the fun if the car isn't a little crazy, and tries to kill you if you're not paying attention. :twisted:

Back to the RX-8, when you're not really going anywhere (in the realm of high-performance car), 16MPG is a tough pill to swallow.

FD3S 11-03-2012 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo (Post 6993180)
Where's the fun if the car isn't a little crazy, and tries to kill you if you're not paying attention. :twisted:

Back to the RX-8, when you're not really going anywhere (in the realm of high-performance car), 16MPG is a tough pill to swallow.

True - the people who seemed to get the most out of it either lived near really twisty terrain, tracked it fairly regularly or had really short commutes :P. As fun as the car is to toss around in corners, there's not a lot of opportunity to do that safely in the city or suburbs.

Still, they're easier to find than FC's or FD's in comparable shape, and so long as they're taken care of properly (I've seen so many people b!itch about the car failing when they can't take thirty damn minutes to do some research, much less the five to add more oil) they're surprisingly sturdy. The only models I'd watch out for would be the autos from the first generation, and even those issues were rectified later.

Rock Strongo 11-03-2012 08:01 PM

I haven't yet got around to get myself a license (I've basically been throwing money away on games instead, it's probably time I act like a responsible 18-year old now...), but the RX-7 is something that's rather intriguing in my mind and I'm glad that they're planning to release a new one. I think the previous generation was a thing of beauty and I'm sure it drove pretty epically as well.

Now, if only teenagers in hoods would stop trying to impress pre-pubescent girls and their Fast and Furious-loving friends by ruining the body of every single one, and the CRX, and the older Skylines, and the Silvias, and the Supra, and that list just goes on and on.

The list just goes on and on, and I don't want a Porsche 944 as a first car (well, they're very cheap-ish, a few months work) but it seems the only viable option because it hasn't been ruined by a pimpled man who never once backed away from his car and thought "that looks absolutely horrible!".

FD3S 11-03-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Strongo (Post 6993289)
I haven't yet got around to get myself a license (I've basically been throwing money away on games instead, it's probably time I act like a responsible 18-year old now...), but the RX-7 is something that's rather intriguing in my mind and I'm glad that they're planning to release a new one. I think the previous generation was a thing of beauty and I'm sure it drove pretty epically as well.

Now, if only teenagers in hoods would stop trying to impress pre-pubescent girls and their Fast and Furious-loving friends by ruining the body of every single one, and the CRX, and the older Skylines, and the Silvias, and the Supra, and that list just goes on and on.

The list just goes on and on, and I don't want a Porsche 944 as a first car (well, they're very cheap-ish, a few months work) but it seems the only viable option because it hasn't been ruined by a pimpled man who never once backed away from his car and thought "that looks absolutely horrible!".

No shame in dropping cash on games so long as you're having fun and nothing important is being neglected :) That said, driving is fun as hell and if the RX-7 caught your eye you've got excellent taste in cars!

First cars are always tricky - the temptation to buy something kick-*** right off the bat is strong! I was going to recommend the 240 SX as a good starter, but if all the ones around who have been defaced by ricers... :( Integras and RSX's are solid choices that look good and handle well, and have juuuuuust enough HP to be fun. I'd be biased toward the Mazda 3 as well (love my car) and if you can find one the first-gen Lancer Ralliart isn't a bad choice, either.

Just have fun with driving in general! Auto, manual, 4WD, FWD, whatever... so long as it's not rush hour traffic, being on the road is great.

ollinger 11-03-2012 08:21 PM

Ever wonder why the rotary engine never caught on, why the German company that originated it sold the rights and why even Mazda doesn't use it in any other vehicles? Because it's inefficient garbage with poor throttle response, marginal emission controls, and miserable gas mileage. A new RX-7.1? Yawn.

FD3S 11-03-2012 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollinger (Post 6993318)
Ever wonder why the rotary engine never caught on, why the German company that originated it sold the rights and why even Mazda doesn't use it in any other vehicles? Because it's inefficient garbage with poor throttle response, marginal emission controls, and miserable gas mileage. A new RX-7.1? Yawn.

Yeah, but the RX-7 was never built to designed to emphasize (or even address, really) any of the bolded points. Hell, the FD was pretty much their halo car by the end of its run, and we know how profitable those usually are compared to the econoboxes. If you bought the RX-7, you bought it for its obscene power/weight ratio and the fact it carved through corners like Fed carves through slices. For better or for worse, it's a driver's car, with the driver willing to take on a bunch of caveats for the sheer fun factor. If that's not your thing - and it's not for a lot of people - there are better choices out there.

Personally, I never got a shot at the model in my username, so I'm looking forward to this one.

ollinger 11-03-2012 09:16 PM

^^ Poor throttle response is OK with sports car enthusiasts? Surprising! My point was that even for a sports car it's a lousy engine; the patent on rotary engines expired long ago so any manufacturer can use the design, yet NOBODY else who builds drivers' cars has the least bit of interest in this engine design. This engine has been around since the 1960s and simply never caught on.

FD3S 11-03-2012 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ollinger (Post 6993389)
^^ Poor throttle response is OK with sports car enthusiasts? Surprising! My point was that even for a sports car it's a lousy engine; the patent on rotary engines expired long ago so any manufacturer can use the design, yet NOBODY else who builds drivers' cars has the least bit of interest in this engine design. This engine has been around since the 1960s and simply never caught on.

Huh, how'd I miss that? Guess I focused too much on the latter two points... well, might as well say this now; not one person I've talked about this car (mechanics, past drivers, etc...) has ever listed throttle control as a complaint. If anything, I've heard raves about how the response is smooth and even the whole way through (unless the car's turbo'd, but that sudden jolt is normal for FI). If you mean the throttle's too sensitive... I see that as more of a right foot issue. Maybe I've gotta search forums more, or something, but you're the first person to bring this up. Care to elaborate?

Why WOULD anyone else want to to take a shot at this engine? Mazda saw Wankel's design, developed cars with it that were reasonably profitable (again, not a bad thing, I doubt cars like the Supra or 300 ZX were the backbone of Toyota's/Nissan's bottom line) but not to the point where others felt it was worth putting in R&D time. They dug out a niche, and I doubt any other car company felt like it was worth it to try and work themselves into it - when the FB first came out, Mazda already had a head start on automotive rotaries for a number of years. Had Nissan or Honda tried to come out with a rotary, it probably would have worked as well, but there was no way people would have bought theirs over Mazda's.

I don't think we're disagreeing that much - the rotary engine IS inefficient, it DOES have horrendous mileage and it DOES give the environment the finger. No one sane could argue otherwise. It just so happens that all the cars to use it also happen to be phenomenally fun to drive, and a big part of that comes from the inherent characteristics of the rotary.

krz 11-03-2012 10:37 PM

meh I liked my FDs/FCs with LS1s in them :P

There was nothing like the 90's for Japanese cars. I recently sold my 511WHP MR2.

FD3S 11-03-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krz (Post 6993462)
meh I liked my FDs/FCs with LS1s in them :P

There was nothing like the 90's for Japanese cars. I recently sold my 511WHP MR2.

A lot of people seem to like that swap! In 2012 it's not a bad choice if you can afford it, though a lot of people still seem to swear by the 13B's, if only b/c of the power per liter measurement. Yeah it's a stat that's kind of useless for typical driving, but I find it downright interesting from a technical standpoint. Gotta give props to the LS1 for causing a hell of a lot less heartbreak over the years though!

Oh, man. What kind of mods did you have on that MR2 (SW20, I'm guessing?)

SwankPeRFection 11-03-2012 10:59 PM

Meh, making this car an NA car (i.e. non-turbo) will be like making another POS like the current Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86. (Why the F they didn't leave the VF turbo on that boxer is beyond me...) Without a turbo it'll just suck, I don't care how you cook it. Besides, you can't take a legend car of the 90's and strip the very things that made it what it was. They did that with the RX-8 and it sucked ***. Maybe I'm just a traditionalist, but I don't believe if taking one of those icons and trying to reinvent them by stripping away the very heart that made it what it was.

Say Chi Sin Lo 11-04-2012 01:21 AM

I wouldn't go as far as to say rotary engines are garbage. If so, you better find another way for international travels.

ollinger 11-05-2012 08:16 PM

^^ Ummm, the (Wankel) rotary engine in the Mazda has nothing in common with a jet turbine engine.


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