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Cindysphinx 11-03-2012 07:23 PM

The Premature Celebration Hindrance Call
 
Well, it finally happened. I called a hindrance and claimed the point. That hasn't happened to me in seven years of USTA play.

The opponent (mixed dubs) was a lady I know well. She is, erm, exuberant on the court. She celebrates her own winners with gusto. She laments errors loudly. Many people, including her partners, find this bothersome. When she was my teammate, some ladies objected to playing with her because they didn't like it (especially the outbursts following their errors).

So. We were in the middle of the first set. I hit a shot and approached the net. She popped the ball over my male partner's head, and he leapt but couldn't reach it. I took off running and caught up with the ball.

As I was still running and getting ready to hit a FH lob, I heard all this celebrating and carrying on from my female opponent. This hollering was nothing in particular (she wasn't doing anything legitimate like warning her partner to back away from an impending smash). No, she was doing war whoops, loud enough for me to hear in a noisy bubble.

I yelled "HINDRANCE!" and stopped the point. My female opponent and her partner were apologetic, but I really felt the celebration was over the top while I was lining up my shot. Knowing how she plays, I felt I needed to put a stop to it. She remained quiet for the rest of the match.

Anybody else ever claim hindrance for a premature celebration?

chatt_town 11-04-2012 12:03 AM

No, but I witnessed a guy from our team call one on another guy. The other guy called him fat boy and all three of them had to meet at the net.lol It was a legite call and the team even awarded the point. I thought it was about to get ugly at the net....lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6993324)
Well, it finally happened. I called a hindrance and claimed the point. That hasn't happened to me in seven years of USTA play.

The opponent (mixed dubs) was a lady I know well. She is, erm, exuberant on the court. She celebrates her own winners with gusto. She laments errors loudly. Many people, including her partners, find this bothersome. When she was my teammate, some ladies objected to playing with her because they didn't like it (especially the outbursts following their errors).

So. We were in the middle of the first set. I hit a shot and approached the net. She popped the ball over my male partner's head, and he leapt but couldn't reach it. I took off running and caught up with the ball.

As I was still running and getting ready to hit a FH lob, I heard all this celebrating and carrying on from my female opponent. This hollering was nothing in particular (she wasn't doing anything legitimate like warning her partner to back away from an impending smash). No, she was doing war whoops, loud enough for me to hear in a noisy bubble.

I yelled "HINDRANCE!" and stopped the point. My female opponent and her partner were apologetic, but I really felt the celebration was over the top while I was lining up my shot. Knowing how she plays, I felt I needed to put a stop to it. She remained quiet for the rest of the match.

Anybody else ever claim hindrance for a premature celebration?


Mike Y 11-04-2012 12:21 AM

There are many times that I want to call a hindrance. I have found that doubles players often talk to each other during points when the ball is traveling toward their opponent, but that is a hindrance. Even on a weak lob, yelling to your partner "Get back!" is a hindrance.

One time in a match when I was hitting my overhead well (and frequently right at my opponents), during a tiebreak point the girl on the other team hit a weaker lob, and I was running up to smash it, and her male partner was at the net. When she saw me running up, she yelled "WATCH OUT WATCH OUT WATCH OUT!" in a very loud scream. They did this often during the match when I was hitting my overheads, but this was particularly egregious. This scream was so loud and sudden that it distracted me for a second, and I actually stopped for a split-second and looked around. For all I knew a car was out of control and barreling onto the court. But I went to hit the overhead, and framed it, and it went out. I was very mad and I then called a hindrance, and a large argument ensued. I didn't know the exact rule at the time, and neither did anyone on the court. We decided that if she was yelling that when the ball was on their side of the court, it wasn't a hindrance, and I decided that I didn't know what side of the court the ball was on, so I dropped the hindrance claim. So yes, we made up an incorrect rule on the spot.

I looked it up later, and I was wrong, but for a different reason. I had every right to call a hindrance, based on the yelling when I was about to hit the overhead. You cannot talk to your partner when the ball is traveling toward your opponents, you can only talk with your partner when the ball is traveling toward you. But I hit the ball, and I cannot call a hindrance once I hit the ball. By doing that, I gave myself two chances to win the point.

But it seems to me that so many people in doubles yell things to their partner when the ball is traveling toward their opponent, and very few people know the rule. So I have just decided that I am not going to make hindrance calls, unless the opponent is saying things to deliberately mess me up. It just causes too much confusion and causes too many arguments and it is just not worth the trouble. I just need to concentrate and finish the overhead.

tennisee 11-04-2012 01:25 AM

I've only called them on myself - typically when I've hit a shot I thought was going out for sure, said. "You Fool!, Damn!" or somesuch, only to see the ball go in at the other end. Mostly after I stop play and explain that I'm giving the point to the opponents they say they didn't hear me as they were concentrating on the shot... but I've usually stopped play in my own mind, so would not have played on well anyway.

tennis tom 11-04-2012 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6993324)
Anybody else ever claim hindrance for a premature celebration?

Well, I probably wouldn't be reading this in the wee hours if it weren't for that.

gmatheis 11-04-2012 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 6993324)
Well, it finally happened. I called a hindrance and claimed the point. That hasn't happened to me in seven years of USTA play.

The opponent (mixed dubs) was a lady I know well. She is, erm, exuberant on the court. She celebrates her own winners with gusto. She laments errors loudly. Many people, including her partners, find this bothersome. When she was my teammate, some ladies objected to playing with her because they didn't like it (especially the outbursts following their errors).

So. We were in the middle of the first set. I hit a shot and approached the net. She popped the ball over my male partner's head, and he leapt but couldn't reach it. I took off running and caught up with the ball.

As I was still running and getting ready to hit a FH lob, I heard all this celebrating and carrying on from my female opponent. This hollering was nothing in particular (she wasn't doing anything legitimate like warning her partner to back away from an impending smash). No, she was doing war whoops, loud enough for me to hear in a noisy bubble.

I yelled "HINDRANCE!" and stopped the point. My female opponent and her partner were apologetic, but I really felt the celebration was over the top while I was lining up my shot. Knowing how she plays, I felt I needed to put a stop to it. She remained quiet for the rest of the match.

Anybody else ever claim hindrance for a premature celebration?

Good call Cindy, Don't think I've ever faced anyone who celebrates on court like that and if they did it was never before the point was actually over so I havent had to call it on an opponent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisee (Post 6993605)
I've only called them on myself - typically when I've hit a shot I thought was going out for sure, said. "You Fool!, Damn!" or somesuch, only to see the ball go in at the other end. Mostly after I stop play and explain that I'm giving the point to the opponents they say they didn't hear me as they were concentrating on the shot... but I've usually stopped play in my own mind, so would not have played on well anyway.

I do however play with a partner sometimes that does this. He mishits and just assumes he hit it out when he hasn't taken the time to see where the ball actually went. So he'll let out a loud "aww darnit" or something to that effect and I have stopped play and given the point to the opponents.

IA-SteveB 11-04-2012 04:45 AM

Reading the story I thought you were going to take off the gloves. Glad she got the hint and toned it down. I don't call anything on anyone because I have found tennis has an inordinate amount of people who are wired wrong upstairs when compared to other sports. I like to avoid conflict and let my play speak for me. That doesn't always work at my level. haha.

Cindysphinx 11-04-2012 06:31 AM

I often blurt something out while the ball is traveling toward opponent. Usually, it is commentary on my own crappy shot that still somehow found the court. Usually, I yell out, "Oh, my Gawd." No one has ever complained. If they did claim hindrance, I would give them the point, of course.

A lot of people think that if they talk/yell when they shouldn't, it is an automatic hindrance. That's not the rule. The act has to actually hinder the opponent. If they didn't have a play on the ball or didn't hear it or didn't find it problematic, then it isn't a hindrance.

I have had people come to the net after a long point and offer to surrender the point because they yelled at the wrong time. This shows, IMHO, a lack of understanding of the hindrance rule. If I don't say I was hindered, then that's that.

We had another weird thing happen, unrelated to hindrance.

I was serving to the guy in the deuce court. I missed my first serve. I was trying to use extra slice for the second serve, and I botched it. It went straight toward the woman in the service box, and she deflected it on the fly with her racket.

My partner didn't want to take the point because that's bush. I didn't want to surrender the point because, well, under the rules it was our point. So I explained to them that it was our point but we didn't want to take a point under those circumstances, so we could play a let instead. They cheerfully agreed.

So. That might be the first time I have played a let when the rules are clear about who won the point.

sureshs 11-04-2012 07:22 AM

Your situational awareness (as they say in the military) must be pretty good if you could hear the hindrance, separate it from noise on other courts, and stop your run to the ball. Most players would end up hitting the ball and complaining afterwards.

Cindysphinx 11-04-2012 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6994016)
Your situational awareness (as they say in the military) must be pretty good if you could hear the hindrance, separate it from noise on other courts, and stop your run to the ball. Most players would end up hitting the ball and complaining afterwards.

That tells you how loud the screaming was, given I could hear it clearly from behind the baseline in a noisy bubble while running and my back to her.

sureshs 11-04-2012 09:03 AM

I was waiting for the annual reference to the bubble and it has shown up!

Remember the time when the bubble collapsed in the snow?

Mongolmike 11-04-2012 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 6994220)
I was waiting for the annual reference to the bubble and it has shown up!

Remember the time when the bubble collapsed in the snow?

That probably happens more than you think... it has happened (bubble collapses) here (northern Ohio) often.

chatt_town 11-04-2012 02:52 PM

Yea, we had this exact same arguement in another thread. I had a similiar situation where I hit a lob...initially thought it was short and told my partner to get back....he reversed and took two running steps towards the lob and once he saw it had a lot of top spin and he couldn't make it turned and tried to call a hindrance. I was having none of it for a couple of reasons. They as well as us had been doing that the whole match....He was about 6'9 and was heavy and we had lobbed them to death. So he was tired and that's why he tried what he did. I didn't honor it and we took the point. I understand rules but there has to be some sense of common sense in there. "You can't get two chances at the point" and that was exactly the language I used in the other thread. People want to at times massage the rules and use them when it's convenient. Maybe you didn't do that but I've seen quite a few people who do. A guy tried to call a foot fault at the end of a second set after I'd been serving and volleying for two sets and killing them with a 30 mph serve but was stinging vollies...I said okay...and took a step back did the same thing on the second serve. When I went to the other side and called it on him...he tried to raise hell. lol He wasn't even serving and volleying. So it backfired on him. He had both feet in the court but had the nerve to call it on me. lol This was doubles by the way. lol


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Y (Post 6993553)
There are many times that I want to call a hindrance. I have found that doubles players often talk to each other during points when the ball is traveling toward their opponent, but that is a hindrance. Even on a weak lob, yelling to your partner "Get back!" is a hindrance.

One time in a match when I was hitting my overhead well (and frequently right at my opponents), during a tiebreak point the girl on the other team hit a weaker lob, and I was running up to smash it, and her male partner was at the net. When she saw me running up, she yelled "WATCH OUT WATCH OUT WATCH OUT!" in a very loud scream. They did this often during the match when I was hitting my overheads, but this was particularly egregious. This scream was so loud and sudden that it distracted me for a second, and I actually stopped for a split-second and looked around. For all I knew a car was out of control and barreling onto the court. But I went to hit the overhead, and framed it, and it went out. I was very mad and I then called a hindrance, and a large argument ensued. I didn't know the exact rule at the time, and neither did anyone on the court. We decided that if she was yelling that when the ball was on their side of the court, it wasn't a hindrance, and I decided that I didn't know what side of the court the ball was on, so I dropped the hindrance claim. So yes, we made up an incorrect rule on the spot.

I looked it up later, and I was wrong, but for a different reason. I had every right to call a hindrance, based on the yelling when I was about to hit the overhead. You cannot talk to your partner when the ball is traveling toward your opponents, you can only talk with your partner when the ball is traveling toward you. But I hit the ball, and I cannot call a hindrance once I hit the ball. By doing that, I gave myself two chances to win the point.

But it seems to me that so many people in doubles yell things to their partner when the ball is traveling toward their opponent, and very few people know the rule. So I have just decided that I am not going to make hindrance calls, unless the opponent is saying things to deliberately mess me up. It just causes too much confusion and causes too many arguments and it is just not worth the trouble. I just need to concentrate and finish the overhead.


Mike Y 11-04-2012 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chatt_town (Post 6994823)
Yea, we had this exact same arguement in another thread. I had a similiar situation where I hit a lob...initially thought it was short and told my partner to get back....he reversed and took two running steps towards the lob and once he saw it had a lot of top spin and he couldn't make it turned and tried to call a hindrance. I was having none of it for a couple of reasons. They as well as us had been doing that the whole match....He was about 6'9 and was heavy and we had lobbed them to death. So he was tired and that's why he tried what he did. I didn't honor it and we took the point. I understand rules but there has to be some sense of common sense in there. "You can't get two chances at the point" and that was exactly the language I used in the other thread. People want to at times massage the rules and use them when it's convenient. Maybe you didn't do that but I've seen quite a few people who do. A guy tried to call a foot fault at the end of a second set after I'd been serving and volleying for two sets and killing them with a 30 mph serve but was stinging vollies...I said okay...and took a step back did the same thing on the second serve. When I went to the other side and called it on him...he tried to raise hell. lol He wasn't even serving and volleying. So it backfired on him. He had both feet in the court but had the nerve to call it on me. lol This was doubles by the way. lol

I don't remember arguing this with you before so I think you have me confused with someone else. But if you tell your partner to get back when the ball is traveling toward your opponent and the opponent feel that he is hindered and stops play right then, then it is a properly called hindrance.

gmatheis 11-04-2012 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chatt_town (Post 6994823)
Yea, we had this exact same arguement in another thread. I had a similiar situation where I hit a lob...initially thought it was short and told my partner to get back....he reversed and took two running steps towards the lob and once he saw it had a lot of top spin and he couldn't make it turned and tried to call a hindrance. I was having none of it for a couple of reasons. They as well as us had been doing that the whole match....He was about 6'9 and was heavy and we had lobbed them to death. So he was tired and that's why he tried what he did. I didn't honor it and we took the point. I understand rules but there has to be some sense of common sense in there. "You can't get two chances at the point" and that was exactly the language I used in the other thread. People want to at times massage the rules and use them when it's convenient. Maybe you didn't do that but I've seen quite a few people who do. A guy tried to call a foot fault at the end of a second set after I'd been serving and volleying for two sets and killing them with a 30 mph serve but was stinging vollies...I said okay...and took a step back did the same thing on the second serve. When I went to the other side and called it on him...he tried to raise hell. lol He wasn't even serving and volleying. So it backfired on him. He had both feet in the court but had the nerve to call it on me. lol This was doubles by the way. lol

Sorry but you should have given the point to your opponent, he may have hesitated to back up for your lob when you told your partner to get back assuming that it was indeed a short lob because of your comment.

It doesnt matter how many times either team had done it, that never prevents you or them from calling it later on.


BTW you can't call someone on a foot fault out of the blue, you have to warn them first.

NTRPolice 11-04-2012 06:06 PM

The rule is really simple...

You cannot yell or even "talk" while the ball is going over to your opponents side of the court. The rules do not distinguish between the type of outburst for simplicities sake and for continuity.

If you pop a ball up and have an "outburst" it is a hindrance.

People seem to think saying "watch out" or "short" or "heads up" somehow makes a difference between saying "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" or "AVADA KEDAVRA!!!". There is no difference.

The only time you can have an "outburst" is when the ball is coming over to your side of the court. In doubles, usually this means using words like "mine", "yours", "deep", or "bounce it".

I await the day where I will have to have the talk with my mixed partner because she always says "watch out". Come playoff time I can see someone calling it on us especially on a critical point. She's a 3.5 national levels player
(shes a 4.0 "B" now) and shes a lawyer. She's like a little "pit bull" lol. She's so much fun to play with. Anyway...

Cindysphinx 11-04-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRPolice (Post 6995101)
The rule is really simple...

You cannot yell or even "talk" while the ball is going over to your opponents side of the court. The rules do not distinguish between the type of outburst for simplicities sake and for continuity.

If you pop a ball up and have an "outburst" it is a hindrance.

People seem to think saying "watch out" or "short" or "heads up" somehow makes a difference between saying "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" or "AVADA KEDAVRA!!!". There is no difference.

The only time you can have an "outburst" is when the ball is coming over to your side of the court. In doubles, usually this means using words like "mine", "yours", "deep", or "bounce it".

I await the day where I will have to have the talk with my mixed partner because she always says "watch out". Come playoff time I can see someone calling it on us especially on a critical point. She's a 3.5 national levels player
(shes a 4.0 "B" now) and shes a lawyer. She's like a little "pit bull" lol. She's so much fun to play with. Anyway...

Nope, the bold part is not true.

You can warn your partner to watch out.

You can tell for your partner to stay, or get back, or come in with you.

You can shriek, "Everybody watch out, he's got a gun!!""

It is only a hindrance if your opponents say it was, and if they had any play on the ball. This is why it is silly to come to the net and confess your utterances and offer up the point. It is up to the opponents to decide if they were hindered and call it in a timely way per the Code.

Yes, it is not a good habit to talk while the ball is moving toward the opponents. You are running the risk of a hindrance call by your opponents. Better is to keep quiet. And IMHO, you should warn your partner of a pending smash, and if this means your opponents decide to call a hindrance, then you gracefully accept their decisions.

tamdoankc 11-05-2012 01:05 AM

Opponent hits a drop shot and starts celebrating. I hustle and get the ball back to their surprise and point continues for a couple more strokes. We win the point and then I go ballistic at the umpire trying to explain the rule. The only reason I didn't stop the play was I knew no one in Vietnam adheres to that specific rule seeing players talking in the middle of the point. I would end up coming off as anal. Case in point was a match prior to ours where the server would yell "Pete Sampras!" as he was serving. I kid you not. Really weird but freaking hilarious. If you've ever played next to Vietnamese you'll see how much smack talk goes on during a match.

sureshs 11-05-2012 07:55 AM

I have played with Vietnamese guys and they don't shout like that.

beernutz 11-05-2012 08:09 AM

From all this discussion it appears I'm probably in the minority of players who have never called a hindrance in league play. I've been playing USTA and our local league regularly since 2005 and have yet to call a hindrance on an opponent in either doubles or singles. In fact I don't think I've even warned an opponent who I thought was exhibiting questionable behavior that what they were doing (e.g. yelling while the ball was headed towards us) might be construed as a hindrance. I have however discussed it with a doubles partner when I thought their actions might be considered a hindrance by the other team. The flip side of that coin is that I've also never had an opponent call a hindrance on me or my partner either.


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