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bhallic24 11-06-2012 06:37 PM

How does Federer
 
run around his backhand on a second serve to crush the forehand return? anyone have insight on the footwork? I tried doing that last week against a friend of mine who wisely always serves to people's backhands nand ended up dumping probably 40% of the run arounds into the net. And ont he other 60%, they were not really "crushed" I'd say.

Thanks.

Netspirit 11-06-2012 06:44 PM

Stand further back and take a bigger cut. In order to crush anything from behind the baseline you need sufficient topspin, blocking a serve back (even a fast one) is not going to produce that.

TheCheese 11-06-2012 07:56 PM

Cross-over step to the left for the first move.

bhallic24 11-06-2012 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCheese (Post 6999583)
Cross-over step to the left for the first move.

like a karoake step? ie. right foot crosses behind the left ?

or like a hoppity hop step sideways?

SoBad 11-06-2012 08:43 PM

just learn to hit a backhand so you don't have to guess and run around like a headless chicken every time you return a serve

tennishotdog 11-06-2012 08:49 PM

yeh just learn a backhand. he can do it because hes federer

vil 11-06-2012 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhallic24 (Post 6999504)
run around his backhand on a second serve to crush the forehand return? anyone have insight on the footwork? I tried doing that last week against a friend of mine who wisely always serves to people's backhands nand ended up dumping probably 40% of the run arounds into the net. And ont he other 60%, they were not really "crushed" I'd say.

Thanks.

Are you expecting step by step instruction how to return a serve with a run around forehand? OK, at the time your opponet serves, drop the racket, do a cartwheel that will put you in a side position, pick up the racket and return the ball with your forehand to an open court, while your server on the other side is still standing frozen in disbelieve.

bhallic24 11-06-2012 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennishotdog (Post 6999658)
yeh just learn a backhand. he can do it because hes federer

i know how to hit a backhand. but as with the vast majorithy of ppl the forehand is much stronger. so whhy not use ur strength?

Phonco 11-06-2012 11:59 PM

I think it really depends on your read of the serve and when you commit to the forehand. It's almost like cheating to one side because its the positioning that really opens the way for the power/winner. You have to start moving moments before the server hits the ball. Specifically when the server takes his/her eyes off of you and looks at the ball (essentially right before he/she hits it). Anytime before that and you possibly reveal your intentions to your opponent and subsequently get burned.

So, during that time take a few side steps toward your backhand and then make the usual split step when the server hits the ball. Another thing you could do is a split step with a bit of a lean toward the left to give you that extra bit of movement/positioning toward that side.

If you want an accompanying video then here's this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3FuR...eature=related . In this you'll notice that Federer starts cheating to his backhand before the serve is hit by taking a few steps, then he leans toward that side, splits, positions and hits the forehand.

If you want instruction on hitting it, then I'd say try to end the point with a winner by hitting as cleanly as possible. This is a really aggressive maneuver, so at a minimum hit to a really uncomfortable spot for your opponent. Otherwise, you'll be out of position and get burned. Personally, I'd aim for an inside-in forehand down the line. End the point by taking the quickest path to the fence (after bounce that is). If not, then my final advice would be to hit the ball right on the sweetspot. I think the combination of your swing + serve pace + sweet spot should at least give you a fairly pacey/aggressive shot to work with.

bhallic24 11-07-2012 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phonco (Post 6999828)
I think it really depends on your read of the serve and when you commit to the forehand. It's almost like cheating to one side because its the positioning that really opens the way for the power/winner. You have to start moving moments before the server hits the ball. Specifically when the server takes his/her eyes off of you and looks at the ball (essentially right before he/she hits it). Anytime before that and you possibly reveal your intentions to your opponent and subsequently get burned.

So, during that time take a few side steps toward your backhand and then make the usual split step when the server hits the ball. Another thing you could do is a split step with a bit of a lean toward the left to give you that extra bit of movement/positioning toward that side.

If you want an accompanying video then here's this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3FuR...eature=related . In this you'll notice that Federer starts cheating to his backhand before the serve is hit by taking a few steps, then he leans toward that side, splits, positions and hits the forehand.

If you want instruction on hitting it, then I'd say try to end the point with a winner by hitting as cleanly as possible. This is a really aggressive maneuver, so at a minimum hit to a really uncomfortable spot for your opponent. Otherwise, you'll be out of position and get burned. Personally, I'd aim for an inside-in forehand down the line. End the point by taking the quickest path to the fence (after bounce that is). If not, then my final advice would be to hit the ball right on the sweetspot. I think the combination of your swing + serve pace + sweet spot should at least give you a fairly pacey/aggressive shot to work with.


thank you. exactly what I was looking for. well explained.

anubis 11-07-2012 06:16 AM

He doesn't run around the ball. He floats.

NTRPolice 11-07-2012 07:01 AM

You guys are forgetting a big detail: the quality of the incoming serve.

The reason why many players have trouble running around the serve is simply because the rec level serve doesnt bounce as high as a pro's one does. When your average rec player serves there isnt nearly as much spin on the ball and especially not on their second serves.

So, what people do is stand closer...

That actually makes it harder and limits your shots.

If you just take the backhand on the rec level serve you're actually much better off in most cases.

You can "cheat" in the box and stand extra wide, but you also dont want to get aced by a 60 mph serve that paints the T because you're standing way too close to the service box and way too wide because you're trying to play forehands.

OHBH 11-07-2012 07:11 AM

Have you run around the backhand during a baseline rally? It is essentially the same footwork but you must have much better anticipation and footwork to do it properly off of a serve.

LuckyR 11-07-2012 07:40 AM

One thing he does, especially on second serves, is take off before the ball is struck so he can travel much farther than a Pro who reacts to a serve struck to their BH.

goran_ace 11-07-2012 09:21 AM

OP, realize that even for the mighty Federer this is a gamble. When he pulls it off its a thing of beauty, but sometimes he misses badly on that forehand, other times the opponent gets a racket on it and has the entire court to hit into because he's way off the court.

bhallic24 11-07-2012 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goran_ace (Post 7000590)
OP, realize that even for the mighty Federer this is a gamble. When he pulls it off its a thing of beauty, but sometimes he misses badly on that forehand, other times the opponent gets a racket on it and has the entire court to hit into because he's way off the court.

very true.

JRstriker12 11-07-2012 01:32 PM

IMHO - most players at the rec level don't have a lot of variety on the serve and second serves don't tend to have the same amount of pace - making it a good opportunity to occasionally step around and go for a big forehand.

Not something you can do every serve, but it's worth it when they guy is sending 99.9% of the serves to your backhand and/or you're just not getting that backhand return in - you have to keep him honest or change things up.

I've had to do something similar on lefty's who always go out wide to the Ad side.

Besides, unless my opponent is just serving fire down the T - I usually cheat a little to my backhand side to present a smaller target for a backhand return. If your're already a step or two over, it's not that hard to run around a slower second serve.

vil 11-07-2012 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRstriker12 (Post 7001072)
IMHO - most players at the rec level don't have a lot of variety on the serve and second serves don't tend to have the same amount of pace - making it a good opportunity to occasionally step around and go for a big forehand.

Not something you can do every serve, but it's worth it when they guy is sending 99.9% of the serves to your backhand and/or you're just not getting that backhand return in - you have to keep him honest or change things up.

I've had to do something similar on lefty's who always go out wide to the Ad side.

Besides, unless my opponent is just serving fire down the T - I usually cheat a little to my backhand side to present a smaller target for a backhand return. If your're already a step or two over, it's not that hard to run around a slower second serve.



:) That's exactly OP's question. He wants to know what do you do with your footwork...........:confused:

zapvor 11-07-2012 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBad (Post 6999653)
just learn to hit a backhand so you don't have to guess and run around like a headless chicken every time you return a serve

oh no.......not this

SoBad 11-07-2012 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapvor (Post 7001390)
oh no.......not this

use both hands to hit the ball from the left, if you must...


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