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-   -   Defend the contact point/unit turns are the two most common causes of errors (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445255)

kiteboard 11-08-2012 09:55 PM

Defend the contact point/unit turns are the two most common causes of errors
 
DEFEND THE CONTACT POINT, THE ARC YOUR ARM MAKES IN FRONT OF YOU.


Keep the engine speeds high and defend the contact point in front of you. Most errors are either coil errors, or contact point errors.


Both are more commonly made in a transition from one mode to the next mode, lull to jam to finish. Most transition errors are made due to slow reactions and jammed engines. We are trained to hit the ball the same distance in front of us, no matter what the incoming shot. That causes a huge amount of mistakes. The correct contact point is not straight wall up/down in front of you. It varies according to the incoming shot’s height. It is shaped like an arced curve. This arc is determined by your own length of arm. Higher incoming shots have to be struck more out front, and lower shots are allowed into the body more before striking your own outgoing shot, due to the length of your own arm. If you place your arm straight out, eye level high, and let it drop, that is the arc you are defending on contact, both at net and on ground. If you use the same contact point on a low ball that you use on a medium high ball, you will net it. If you use the same contact point on a high ball that you use on a medium ball, you will hit it late and go out long. Our best contact point is when our arm is barred out front so the wrist can be locked at contact for maximum consistency, and that point is determined by the incoming shot’s height. Another facet of contact point is the spot in the string bed. It has to be in the right place in the bed. If too low, or too high, the strings are too short, their frequency level of rebound is too high, and there is not enough control. Some like to strike the ball high up, such as 3rd cross down from top. Some like it in the middle, 10th cross down. Most are inbetween.

pvaudio 11-08-2012 10:16 PM

Honestly kb, while I understand what you're saying, you sure do have an odd way of putting things. Jammed engines? Frequency level of rebound?

dominikk1985 11-08-2012 10:46 PM

so is this like in baseball were you want to hit an inside pitch more out front than an outside pitch?

Roforot 11-09-2012 03:29 AM

Not sure if I fully understood KB's writing...

The contact point for higher bouncing balls is more to the side vs. lower balls. I believe you should still meet the ball in front of your front foot. I don't believe you try to hit a higher ball further in front or earlier than a lower ball.

treblings 11-09-2012 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roforot (Post 7003924)
Not sure if I fully understood KB's writing...

you would be the first:):):)
actually this post is pretty clear for his standards, and i do agree with the point he makes

pvaudio 11-09-2012 05:46 AM

It is shockingly straight forward. I actually understand exactly what he said.

kiteboard 11-09-2012 07:04 AM

String frequency is too high in the lower and upper middle part of the frame, if not hit in the sweet spot, more in the center of where you like to hit. The strings are shorter there, and closer to the edges of the frame, causing higher frequency on rebound and no control. (Too low towards the bottom or too high towards the top edge of the racquet.) Jammed engines: lower and upper body is different in the way we gain coil and uncoil. Lower body depends on choppy fast martial arts like foot and leg work, while upper body depends on loose, relaxed, speed.

Most ues are made due to either coil errrors, or contact point errors. High balls have to be hit way out in front towards the net. Low balls are best hit more close to your body, due to your length of arm at locked wrist contacts.

sureshs 11-09-2012 08:17 AM

Frankly, I have never understood this hitting out in front business. I see many pro shots being hit more on the side, or the pro standing back, which is quite different from taking the shot out in front when standing more forward.

pvaudio 11-09-2012 08:36 AM

I promise you every single pro hits the ball in fron. All that means is that their arm, at contact (or the racquet face if you wish), is ahead of the plane of their chest.




sureshs 11-09-2012 08:39 AM

1. If they have moved back, or created more space by adopting the neutral stance, is it really hitting out in front???

2. When on a run or stretched wide, pros do seem to compromise and hit more to the side.

3. Once you are in a comfortable position, wouldn't anyone hit a little in front of them if they can?

It seems to me that they do what is comfortable for them.

WildVolley 11-09-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7004371)
1. If they have moved back, or created more space by adopting the neutral stance, is it really hitting out in front???

Yes, they are still hitting out front, which means in front of the plane of the chest. And, yes, they'll sometimes have to back up in order to hit out front.


Quote:

2. When on a run or stretched wide, pros do seem to compromise and hit more to the side.
This is also true, but you understand it is a compromise. The most extreme example of this is when pros hit the ball behind themselves with a squash shot. You'll notice that most will switch to a continental grip to hit the squash shot.

Quote:

3. Once you are in a comfortable position, wouldn't anyone hit a little in front of them if they can?
Old school players who hit with a continental fh are not as comfortable taking the ball as far in front. And I'd say the same holds for eastern fh players who don't have the wrist flexibility of Federer.

Cheetah 11-09-2012 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7004371)
2. When on a run or stretched wide, pros do seem to compromise and hit more to the side.

Show us a picture or it didn't happen.

sureshs 11-09-2012 10:12 AM

I cannot imagine how someone can NOT hit out in front of the chest but on the side, except for some special case as mentioned above.

Hitting on the side, whatever be the turned position, seems almost impossible or ridiculous - it will be like patting someone on the back when both of you are standing side by side facing forward. You can't even see his back properly and you can't generate any force.

Does hitting out in front also have a relation to taking the ball early?

I think for the same overall level of play, telling someone to hit out in front does not do anything. I have heard this being shouted out to so many adults in clinics, and they don't change anything, because the foundation for it is not there. They end up shortening their swing and trying to catch the ball earlier before their mind and body is prepared for it, and goofing up.

Ash_Smith 11-09-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7004552)
Does hitting out in front also have a relation to taking the ball early?

No, not necessarily - it is entirely possible (and very common) to hit the ball on the drop and still take it out in front of the plane of the body.

As for Geoff's points - protecting your contact point is something i harp on about constantly (albeit in different terms!).

Cheers

Cheetah 11-09-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7004552)
When on a run or stretched wide, pros do seem to compromise and hit more to the side.

I cannot imagine how someone can NOT hit out in front of the chest but on the side, except for some special case as mentioned above.

I don't understand what you are saying here.

rkelley 11-09-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash_Smith (Post 7004603)
As for Geoff's points - protecting your contact point is something i harp on about constantly (albeit in different terms!).

Cheers

That concept of protecting the contact point has been very helpful to me, especially on my bh. I was doing it more or less before I heard the term, but that specific term really helped me be more aggressive about it.

5263 11-09-2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7004604)
I don't understand what you are saying here.

Can be a confusing term as some like suresh here will think it means hitting
directly in front of the torso, vs closer to the net than the player.

kiteboard 11-09-2012 11:54 AM

When you study pro rallies, and see when they miss, it's always due to: late coil turn, or wrong contact point defense. No one misses when they coil early, unless it's a no pace jamming ball, and they miss due to their bodies slowing down, or hitting too far out in front on no pace shots.


They miss high volleys, or high groundies, when they hit late, and they go long. Sometimes they hit too early, and go into net on high shots, but it's far more often a late contact. Talk to Roddick about that high bh volley that cost him a wimby. Too late, and missed wide/long.

It's almost impossible to be on the right spot on every shot in a match. But if you know why you are missing, trying to maintain the same contact distance, on every shot, and not coiling early enough, you can be more aggressive in fixing those errors during a match.

Cheetah 11-09-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7004728)
Can be a confusing term as some like suresh here will think it means hitting
directly in front of the torso, vs closer to the net than the player.

Don't you mean the opposite?

kiteboard 11-09-2012 01:10 PM

The coil: Ues can come from uncoiling too early or too late. Most of the time it's too late. Many come from coiling too late. No one misses due to an early coil.

Every match contains ues due to contact point timing mistakes: too far in front, and too far behind.

The best players just make the fewest timing ues. They go out after high balls, and let low balls come to them. They coil early. They uncoil at the right time. Yet even the top players make so many ues due to the same reasons we all do.

There's just a small part of the ball we can hit at high frame speed.


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