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-   -   Am I through with top level Tennis-Injury Explained-Help requested (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445392)

Mick3391 11-10-2012 04:21 PM

Am I through with top level Tennis-Injury Explained-Help requested
 
I started playing Tennis after a long Hiatus about 8-9 months ago to train my then 11 year old son.

I'm 38 and have never had injuries, not real injuries. First I ripped my plantaris muscle, incredible pain. Then I ripped my second one. Then my neck, then in the emergency room with a pulled tendon in my ankle/foot.

That's all gone, but one thing has stayed, and I simply can't play high performace Tennis. About 3-4 months ago, on the opposite side of my elbow I had pain/weakness. I mean to hit the ball hurt bad each time, sometimes just picking up the racquet hurts. So unlike my other injuries I actually did give it a rest for a week. But once playing again it came back, so after 3-4 months it's still with me.

Anyone know how to fix this? It's not just pain, but weakness. It's like a dull pain, sharp when I hit the ball.

Red Sunset 11-11-2012 11:30 AM

It's likely due to horrendous technique.

Say Chi Sin Lo 11-11-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sunset (Post 7008180)
It's likely due to horrendous technique.

And/or the misconception of what injuries are. Clearly, "ripping" plantaris muscles and going to the emergency room for a hurt ankle are not injuries. You just went for a tune-up.

You sure you didn't play with an "injured" elbow and pushed it to the point of no return?

LeeD 11-11-2012 12:57 PM

"top level" tennis?
Are you sure you know what that is?
And yes, you're through with "top level" tennis.

Mick3391 11-11-2012 02:22 PM

Thanks for your help guys, clearly love is in your heart.

Sabratha 11-11-2012 03:53 PM

What's your definition of "top level tennis"?

F. Perry 11-11-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick3391 (Post 7009042)
Thanks for your help guys, clearly love is in your heart.

You earned it.

Mick3391 11-11-2012 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabratha (Post 7009267)
What's your definition of "top level tennis"?

Just playing as good as I can, not "Top" as in "Top", top for me. I play horrible with this arm.

Would be great if anyone knew something about this condition, surely it can't be unique to me. It hurts to dry my hair with a towel and hasn't gone away for a long time now.

Crispvolley 11-11-2012 06:43 PM

Honestly, if it hurts that badly and you have insurance, go see a respected Orthopaedic surgeon - preferably one that specializes in elbow/arm issues. They will be able to give you a proper diagnosis and treatment plan to hopefully resolve the issue.

I am 36 and like you never had any injuries to speak of, until recently when I had some issues that I thought were symptoms of golfers elbow. It got to the point where I could not straighten my arm, so I went in and had it looked at. 15 minutes later I was told my issue was really triceps tendonitis, given a treatment plan, and within two weeks I was back on the courts. Your issue could be more or less serious than mine, but you really won't be able to know until have it looked at by a professional so you get the right diagnosis and recovery plan.

dak95_00 11-11-2012 06:45 PM

Go to a sports medicine clinic where you can see an athletic trainer or other sports injury person. Nearly all high schools have an AT. Your son's school might have one. Ask around. You'll get better advice from someone who can actually see you.

If they can't figure it out, they'll refer you to a doctor and might anyways.

I don't know why you haven't sought the advice of someone in medicine or athletic or physical training yet anyways.

ramos77 11-11-2012 07:37 PM

1. Take a break for a couple months and get treatment.

2. Get rid of the kfactor and the NXT strings.

3. Get an arm friendly racquet, (Volkl, Pro Kennex) and use natural gut strings.

NLBwell 11-11-2012 08:35 PM

Go to a good doctor.

WildVolley 11-11-2012 08:51 PM

I had to look up what a plantaris muscle is. Never heard of it before.

You need to stop playing tennis for a while, perhaps see a doctor, and slowly start doing some rehabilitation work. I've become a believer in weight training for tennis, especially for people who are aging. Likely you've lost a lot of strength and even a basic strength routine will help build muscles and strengthen tendons.

Once you feel healthy enough to start playing again, see a good coach or perhaps video tape your performance and look for technique errors. Start slow and work your way back into it. I see guys in their 80s still playing tennis, so I think it is easily in the reach of most guys to play through their 50s assuming no degenerative diseases.

charliefedererer 11-11-2012 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick3391 (Post 7006774)
About 3-4 months ago, on the opposite side of my elbow I had pain/weakness. I mean to hit the ball hurt bad each time, sometimes just picking up the racquet hurts. So unlike my other injuries I actually did give it a rest for a week. But once playing again it came back, so after 3-4 months it's still with me.

Anyone know how to fix this? It's not just pain, but weakness. It's like a dull pain, sharp when I hit the ball.

I'm not sure where the pain is.

Looking at the photos below, is it in the areas of tennis or golfer's elbow? [yes, tennis player's also get golfer's elbow.]


Chas Tennis 11-12-2012 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick3391 (Post 7006774)
I started playing Tennis after a long Hiatus about 8-9 months ago to train my then 11 year old son.

I'm 38 and have never had injuries, not real injuries. First I ripped my plantaris muscle, incredible pain. Then I ripped my second one. Then my neck, then in the emergency room with a pulled tendon in my ankle/foot.

That's all gone, but one thing has stayed, and I simply can't play high performace Tennis. About 3-4 months ago, on the opposite side of my elbow I had pain/weakness. I mean to hit the ball hurt bad each time, sometimes just picking up the racquet hurts. So unlike my other injuries I actually did give it a rest for a week. But once playing again it came back, so after 3-4 months it's still with me.

Anyone know how to fix this? It's not just pain, but weakness. It's like a dull pain, sharp when I hit the ball.

Of course after an injury you need to have a Dr's diagnosis and advice.

From the number of your injuries and their type - probably tendon injuries - you sound as if your lifestyle has gotten you out of shape with too many tight/short muscles. ?

See reply #12 especially for short/tight muscles and life style issues.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=419850

Exercises or stretches when injured might cause farther injury. Only do them only after a Dr has said that they are OK.

You might talk to your sports medicine Dr about having your posture and ranges of motion for your joints measured with the purpose of correcting any tightness or weakness issues.

To research tennis elbow, search and read the many TE & Golfer's Elbow threads to find some useful information. See a Dr for a diagnosis of your unknown elbow injury. Don't stress the injured elbow with extreme tennis stroke forces that probably injured it in the first place.

Mick3391 11-12-2012 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispvolley (Post 7009665)
Honestly, if it hurts that badly and you have insurance, go see a respected Orthopaedic surgeon - preferably one that specializes in elbow/arm issues. They will be able to give you a proper diagnosis and treatment plan to hopefully resolve the issue.

I am 36 and like you never had any injuries to speak of, until recently when I had some issues that I thought were symptoms of golfers elbow. It got to the point where I could not straighten my arm, so I went in and had it looked at. 15 minutes later I was told my issue was really triceps tendonitis, given a treatment plan, and within two weeks I was back on the courts. Your issue could be more or less serious than mine, but you really won't be able to know until have it looked at by a professional so you get the right diagnosis and recovery plan.

Wow yea that's awesome all of you:)

Yea the thing is it sounds I'm like you, I get a pain and just go on, let it work itself out, but yea time to see a Doctor, this is rediculous. By the way I've heard that before (Golfers Elbow), it's clearly on this inside, the muscles exact opposite side of the elbow bone, they just burn all the time, now it can hurt with stupid things (Picking up a towel or other light things)

Mick3391 11-12-2012 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 7009901)
I had to look up what a plantaris muscle is. Never heard of it before.

You need to stop playing tennis for a while, perhaps see a doctor, and slowly start doing some rehabilitation work. I've become a believer in weight training for tennis, especially for people who are aging. Likely you've lost a lot of strength and even a basic strength routine will help build muscles and strengthen tendons.

Once you feel healthy enough to start playing again, see a good coach or perhaps video tape your performance and look for technique errors. Start slow and work your way back into it. I see guys in their 80s still playing tennis, so I think it is easily in the reach of most guys to play through their 50s assuming no degenerative diseases.

The strange thing is that I have alot of muscle, I believe in working out with weights also.

Yea man I have just fell apart, it's almost funny because I never really had any injuries except for small stupid things.

The Plantaris my doctor told me is in the calf, FIRST SERVE back I fell to the ground, evidentelly as strange as it sounds it rolls up and dies, at least that's what my doctor said. So yea incredible pain, playing with one leg and pain pills, then my other one goes out, then in the hospital with a torn tendon in the foot ankle area, then neck, man...........and at only 39, well 38 and 12 1/2 months:)

I can see how the Nadals of the world can be in so much jeopordy as they are full speed all year. I'm not even in first gear compared to him!

Mick3391 11-12-2012 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dak95_00 (Post 7009673)
Go to a sports medicine clinic where you can see an athletic trainer or other sports injury person. Nearly all high schools have an AT. Your son's school might have one. Ask around. You'll get better advice from someone who can actually see you.

If they can't figure it out, they'll refer you to a doctor and might anyways.

I don't know why you haven't sought the advice of someone in medicine or athletic or physical training yet anyways.

Because I'm stupid, or at least my son says I'm not that smart to keep playing through pain. My leg cleared itself, same with every other injury I've had, figured this would just go away.

By the way to my friend who suggested a more arm friendly racquet, to pick up a racquet hurts sometimes:)

charliefedererer 11-13-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick3391 (Post 7013531)
Because I'm stupid, or at least my son says I'm not that smart to keep playing through pain. My leg cleared itself, same with every other injury I've had, figured this would just go away.

By the way to my friend who suggested a more arm friendly racquet, to pick up a racquet hurts sometimes:)

You have lived long enough to realize that the vast majority of aches and pains, even if initially severe, usually get better on their own.

Vast majority of aches and pains - but not all.


You also have observed that most superficial wounds heal in about a weak - hence it is understandable that you took a week off and expected to see an improvement.



But from your response to WildVolley I assume you have pain in the area consistent with "golfer's elbow".




Golfer's elbow, just like tennis elbow that occurs on the other side of the forearm near the elbow, involves either one, or more commonly many, small tears in the tendon:






Tendon is very dense protein that almost resembles a strong rope.


The way the body repairs a tendon is by the process of "inflammation and repair".



Inflammation means that white blood cells are attracted to the site of the injury.
The white blood cells make chemicals (cytokines) that attract the type of cell (fibroblast) that will make the protein to repair the tear.



The trouble is that the protein strands that are made by these cells are incredibly small. It takes millions of these little strands to bind together to heal the tear.



These little protein strands resemble the protein strands that make up a spider's web.



From the Spiderman movies we all know that a spider's web is stronger than steel, ounce for ounce.

But we also all know that to break up a spider's web, we only need to wiggle our finger in it.




It takes many weeks for these isolated strands to become "crosslinked" and form a strong tendon again that is as strong as rope or cable.







What you are doing by continuing to play is break down the protein strands as you forcefully swing your racquet - this force is way more than the force of a finger in a spider's web breaking down thin, healing protein strands.




Every time you break these protein strands down, the body has to start all over to heal the area.

You elbow area is living the same problem over and over day after day, like in the movie Groundhog Day.




And why the continued pain?

The inflammation phase usually lasts just long enough for the white blood cells to recruit the cells that make the protein (fibroblasts) to the the injured site.
Again, they recruit the protein building cells by secreting chemicals (cytokines) to the area.
The main job of the chemicals is to attract the protein building cells there, but a side effect is that these chemicals are that they irritate nerve endings - hence pain.

Because you have broken down these healing areas so often, there is a much larger number of white blood cells making a lot more chemicals at the site to finally make enough protein strands to heal the area.



[Be warned: if the inflammation goes on too long, the chemicals will actually start to break down surrounding tissue, resulting in degeneration/fibrosis of the tendon, and it will never go back to normal.]:







So do yourself a favor and REST.

Go see that doctor who can give you individual care based on exactly what is wrong for you, and can outline a gradual increasing amount of physical therapy.




A few words on physical therapy.

The first sessions of "exercise" are not to strengthen the muscle/tendon area.

They are just to keep the tendons sliding past one another in a normal fashion.

Otherwise the process of inflammation ends up with tendons and muscles "glued together" by all those excess protein strands, so the tendons and muscles don't glide smoothly any more.

Only when almost all the pain goes away can actual strengthening begin.

And if there is a return of pain, you have hod off on exercise for a time, then begin again.



I hope this helps!

charliefedererer 11-13-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick3391 (Post 7013498)
The strange thing is that I have a lot of muscle, I believe in working out with weights also.

Your exercise may have worked against you.

Most exercises involve flexion and extension, not the rotational forces so prevalent in tennis.


Therefore your strong muscles were able to pull on your tendons with more force than if you hadn't exercised, but your tendons were not ready for the excess rotational forces.

This devise really works the forearm muscles in a rotational fashion, so that your foream/elbow will later be ready for tennis.


Therefore, it is likely that your physical therapy will involve initially using a red, and much later, a green flexbar.
Thera-Band FlexBar Video Demonstration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB3TVb8a5mk




Later, I would urge you to do all of the Thrower's ten exercises to help prevent shoulder and wrist (as well as elbow problems), as these exercises bring muscles through all the different directions (including rotational) that tennis playing involves.
Thrower's Ten Exercises: http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/a...throwers10.pdf



[It's not that you are 38.

It's that you are bringing your strong muscles explosively through ranges of muscle that they have not been prepared for in your exercise program.]


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