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-   -   How honest are you? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445400)

TonyB 11-10-2012 05:19 PM

How honest are you?
 
Seriously, I'm wondering just how honest most people are.

In recent matches, I've given up points on:

Touching the net with my foot before the ball bounced twice -- it really didn't matter because it was an overhead putaway, but my foot barely touched the bottom of the net after I hit the ball.

Grazing a ball with my frame before my partner hit it for a winner (doubles). The slight touch of my frame didn't disrupt the ball's path. In fact, nobody else noticed that I even touched it at all.

And today, while serving, down 0-30, I double faulted with a 2nd serve just barely missing the center line, but neither of my opponents (doubles) saw it. They both called it "good" because they couldn't see it and I called it "out" (because it really was), thus going down 0-40 and I went on to lose the game.


Anyone else that honest around here?

Overheadsmash 11-10-2012 06:16 PM

I always call it like I see it, even it means a lost game, set, or match for me. If you get a reputation for being a cheat, no one will want to play tennis with you.

tennis tom 11-10-2012 06:28 PM

Generally honest, but if the opponents have been acting like dicks then I'll dick 'em back. Against people like that, you won't earn their respect by being honest, they'll just think you're a schmuck. Finding more and more, cheating cheaters and giving wacko back to wackos, works--they get that and respect you for being one of them--that honor amongst thieves thing.

dcdoorknob 11-10-2012 08:46 PM

I'm just confused how two doubles opponents who are receiving serve manage to not see your serve? In general don't think I'd overrule them, it's their call. People play serves that I think *may* have been out all the time (and sometimes even that I'm pretty sure were out), I've learned to just keep playing unless I see/hear a clear out call. If they get the return back and didn't call it out and I stop play they can often will just claim the point, which is perfectly reasonable for them to do.

Does not make sense that "they didn't see it." What were they looking at instead then, exactly?

Bartelby 11-10-2012 08:54 PM

You really should let the doubles non-returner call the serves, or at least that's what I was taught.

gmatheis 11-11-2012 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoorknob (Post 7007022)
I'm just confused how two doubles opponents who are receiving serve manage to not see your serve? In general don't think I'd overrule them, it's their call. People play serves that I think *may* have been out all the time (and sometimes even that I'm pretty sure were out), I've learned to just keep playing unless I see/hear a clear out call. If they get the return back and didn't call it out and I stop play they can often will just claim the point, which is perfectly reasonable for them to do.

Does not make sense that "they didn't see it." What were they looking at instead then, exactly?

You are not supposed to call your own first serves out, only your second serves.

gmatheis 11-11-2012 01:47 AM

I'm pretty darn honest when I play, I will routinely call my own shots out that miss a line by less than an inch when my opponent might say something like "that was really close I'm gonna have to give it to ya". If I'm not sure that's ok but if I saw it then I don't take a point I didn't earn.

I also often play opponents balls when they are within in inch or so out, because I don't want to end up making a bad call.

dizzlmcwizzl 11-11-2012 03:56 AM

To the OP ... I have done all of those things at some point and called them on myself. However, I cannot promise I have called this on myself every time it has happened.

Sentinel 11-11-2012 04:05 AM

They call me Honest Abdul

TonyB 11-11-2012 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoorknob (Post 7007022)
I'm just confused how two doubles opponents who are receiving serve manage to not see your serve?
Does not make sense that "they didn't see it." What were they looking at instead then, exactly?


It had a ton of spin and hooked in towards the center T. The netman didn't have a good angle on it, so it looked good. The returner was late to the ball and couldn't see it straight along the centerline, so he assumed it was good.

But I had a direct view from where I was and I could clearly see that it was out by about an inch or so. No doubt about it.

I've been hooked so many times in league matches that I probably should have just let the point go in my favor, but that's not how I play.

Cindysphinx 11-11-2012 06:29 AM

The real test of honesty is whether you will overrule your partner's line call.

I played a match recently with a lady who tends to call lines while looking across them. Happens all the time with her. We were early in the first set, and she called a ball wide on the sideline when I was closer and looking down that line.

Nope, sorry. I think it caught, so I gave them the point after discussing it with her.

It would have been easy to say, "I'm going with my partner's call." But darn it, folks need to stop calling lines when they are not in good position to make the call. The only way to educate them is disagree and award the opponent the point.

Roforot 11-11-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyB (Post 7006846)
<edit>
And today, while serving, down 0-30, I double faulted with a 2nd serve just barely missing the center line, but neither of my opponents (doubles) saw it. They both called it "good" because they couldn't see it and I called it "out" (because it really was), thus going down 0-40 and I went on to lose the game.


Anyone else that honest around here?

Not sure about the last example. It's tough for me to see that ball w/ the centerstrap and if it's that close, I wouldn't complain if they called it out, but I wouldn't penalize myself if they thought it was in. On the other hand I have called out DTL shots where I had a good view of the ball vs. opponents who're perhaps giving me the benefit of the doubt when they're watching perpendicular to the spot.

BTW, the score shouldn't matter as to whether you're honest or not.

cluckcluck 11-11-2012 06:56 AM

I always try to call every shot as best as I can. If I didn't see it completely out, I'll play it. If it was completely out, I'll call it. I rarely argue with opponents on out calls, the most I've said in response to a bad call is "are you sure?"
You never know when you're going to get a total a-hole on the other side who would chase you down and beat you with his racquet.

Rozroz 11-11-2012 07:22 AM

how can anyone really enjoy a game if cheating or even slightly cheating is beyond me.
no fun at all.

dcdoorknob 11-11-2012 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyB (Post 7007264)
It had a ton of spin and hooked in towards the center T. The netman didn't have a good angle on it, so it looked good. The returner was late to the ball and couldn't see it straight along the centerline, so he assumed it was good.

But I had a direct view from where I was and I could clearly see that it was out by about an inch or so. No doubt about it.

I've been hooked so many times in league matches that I probably should have just let the point go in my favor, but that's not how I play.

So it wasn't "unsighted", you just think they missed the call. You seem awfullly sure of yourself that it was out, even if only by an inch. I'm very seldom *that* sure on a ball that close (especially since I'm not usually seeing the center service line straight on from my vantage point either after I just served, were you not covering a cross court return at all?), so I'm unlikely to overrule my opponents call in that position. In general I think the receivers are pretty much always in better position to call the serve than the server, so even if I think it was an inch out, I'll just defer to whatever they actually call because I'm not going to be sure enough to overrule. (I would if it was really obvious I guess, but that situation really doesn't come up that I can remember).

If it's a different situation, later in a point, and both opponents are like scrambling out of position and genuinely don't even get their heads around to call a ball, I'd call my own ball out if I thought it was out for sure, and I'd always be honest if asked whether I thought it was out or not regardless of situation, although again I can't remember even being asked that question on one of my own serves.

OrangePower 11-11-2012 02:29 PM

I will call my own shots out if I'm sure. The most common scenario is attempted winner / passing shot down the line, where my opponent is looking across the ball while I have a good view of it. Most opponents will give me benefit of the doubt on a ball that is slightly out, but if I see it out, I will call it on myself.

Having said that I would not be as quick to call a 2nd serve out, because typically I am still recovering from my service motion when the ball lands. I'm not tracking it through the air, and I don't get a very good look at it. So unless it's obvious to me, I'm going to rely on the opponent(s) to call it.

OrangePower 11-11-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyB (Post 7006846)
Seriously, I'm wondering just how honest most people are.

Ever called a footfault on yourself or your partner?

Now that would be impressively honest :-)

sphinx780 11-11-2012 04:39 PM

Anytime I'm playing singles and have a clearer look down the line, I'll call a miss.

USTA dubs match recently, my partner called a second serve to him out, which would have given us the break and a chance to serve for the match, I corrected it good, they went on to hold.

If I see it, I call it. If it's close and I'm unsure I go in my opponents favor as it should be.

If I'm going to win, I'm going to win on my merit, not my calls.

Cindysphinx 11-11-2012 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinx780 (Post 7009385)

USTA dubs match recently, my partner called a second serve to him out, which would have given us the break and a chance to serve for the match, I corrected it good, they went on to hold.

If I see it, I call it. If it's close and I'm unsure I go in my opponents favor as it should be.

If I'm going to win, I'm going to win on my merit, not my calls.

Curious: was this a center line call, a sideline call or a service line call?

There is almost no chance I will overrule my partner on a serve call of out if she is looking down that line and I am looking across it. If she has the better view, how can I possibly be sure she is wrong?

schmke 11-11-2012 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinx780 (Post 7009385)
Anytime I'm playing singles and have a clearer look down the line, I'll call a miss.

USTA dubs match recently, my partner called a second serve to him out, which would have given us the break and a chance to serve for the match, I corrected it good, they went on to hold.

If I see it, I call it. If it's close and I'm unsure I go in my opponents favor as it should be.

If I'm going to win, I'm going to win on my merit, not my calls.

I'm glad to see this attitude exhibited by many of the folks responding to this thread. My wife and her mixed partner unfortunately were not so lucky last night.

Serving at 5-6, 15-30 in the second set of a USTA match, my wife, let's call her Sue, hits an ace that is pretty clearly on the line, the female receiving, let's call her Pam, calls it out, the male partner doesn't. My wife's partner, let's call him Bob, protests (this was not the first questionable call they'd made, things were boiling over) and the receiving female says "play 2". Bob says if they are unsure or correcting the call to in, it is Bob and Sue's point, so the female says, "ok, it was out then, 2nd serve". Sue proceeds to hit a serve deep in the corner, several inches inside the side line and service line, there is clearly space between the ball and the lines, and yep, you guessed it, Pam calls it out again.

Next point Bob hits a volley deep in the court that appears to catch the baseline, but yep, you guessed it, it was called out. This wouldn't have been so bad except the entire match was filled with questionable to blatantly bad calls, most on aces or clear winners they didn't have a play on. My wife and her partner refused to stoop to their level and squeeze them back so there wasn't much to be done. Folks playing on the court next to them said after the match all three balls were in so I'm pretty sure Bob and Sue weren't mistaken.

Checking with the league coordinator afterwards I learned that they can ask for an impartial person to stand on the court and comment on calls when asked (or 1 person from each team), but these "commenters" can't make calls or correct them.

Here's wishing for more honest players. A bad call or two because you honestly see it differently is fine or you chalk up to poor eyesight or wishful thinking. Approaching 10 blatant calls in a match is just too much.


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