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-   -   Why has Murray's level dropped since the USO? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445464)

Mainad 11-11-2012 03:02 PM

Why has Murray's level dropped since the USO?
 
I wonder why his level of play seems to have declined so much since his USO victory? I thought winning his first Slam would have finally relaxed him and made him more confident about his game. But in his subsequent 4 tournaments:

Tokyo: Defending champion. Lost to Raonic in the semis after going up a break and holding 2 match points (this was the guy he destroyed in straights at the USO).

Shanghai: Defending champion. Lost to Djokovic in the final after holding 5 match points.

Paris-Bercy: Normally never gets past the quarters. Didn't even get that far this time. Lost in the 3rd round to qualifier Janowicz after holding yet another match point.

WTF: IMO poor form throughout even though he qualified from the Group stages. Lost in straights to Federer in the semis after holding a break in the first set (this was the guy he beat in straights by the same margin in the semis at Shanghai).

Is he just physically and/or mentally tired after the pressures this year of making his first Wimbledon final, winning the Olympic gold medal and his first ever Grand Slam title?

Why has he lost so much focus and drive? Or am I exaggerating the extent of his malaise?

Any thoughts (serious ones, please)?

TheF1Bob 11-11-2012 03:11 PM

You need to chill out mate. He's still playing at good level, better than last year. It's just Novak and Fed are getting the better of him in this moment of time.

Raonic played lights out on the MP and Paris he was never gonna take seriously.

Prisoner of Birth 11-11-2012 03:12 PM

Murray is a bit of a headcase, he can go from, "Sweet Jesus, mindblowing!" to "WTF is this wanker?" within 5 minutes.

The Bawss 11-11-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainad (Post 7009147)
I wonder why his level of play seems to have declined so much since his USO victory? I thought winning his first Slam would have finally relaxed him and made him more confident about his game. But in his subsequent 4 tournaments:

Tokyo: Defending champion. Lost to Raonic in the semis after going up a break and holding 2 match points (this was the guy he destroyed in straights at the USO).

Shanghai: Defending champion. Lost to Djokovic in the final after holding 5 match points.

Paris-Bercy: Normally never gets past the quarters. Didn't even get that far this time. Lost in the 3rd round to qualifier Janowicz after holding yet another match point.

WTF: IMO poor form throughout even though he qualified from the Group stages. Lost in straights to Federer in the semis after holding a break in the first set (this was the guy he beat in straights by the same margin in the semis at Shanghai).

Is he just physically and/or mentally tired after the pressures this year of making his first Wimbledon final, winning the Olympic gold medal and his first ever Grand Slam title?

Why has he lost so much focus and drive? Or am I exaggerating the extent of his malaise?

Thoughts?

Tokyo: Lost to a better play on the day. USO was a fluke, windy conditions favoured the highland-bred Haggis-eating champ massively.

Shanghai: Djokovic is a superior player. Not much more to say about that.

Paris: Despicable tank. Then again all the players in with a chance of winning london (i.e not Ferrer) tanked/didn't play Paris.

WTF: Lost to superior Djokovic and Federer.


I see no logical inconsistencies here.







Murray had a great year for sure, did that make him complacent? Maybe. Did that drain him mentally? Possibly. Losing to all time greats like Federer and Novak is nothing to be ashamed of and not worth generating excuses for.

Oceansize 11-11-2012 03:45 PM

I too thought after winning a Slam, he would be able to relax and enjoy his tennis more. However, he still seems uptight and prone to taking the 'try not to lose' mentality on to the court.

I'm thinking it's time to accept that Murray will never be able to consistently play attacking, positive tennis like Federer and Djokovic have done. I know lots of people would say he's just not as talented as these guys, but personally, i think he's not far off, it's just that he's mentally too negative and nervous in the big matches.

Who knows, a holiday and some time with Lendl and his sports psychologist might be able to help in the off season.

Netspirit 11-11-2012 03:56 PM

If not for the crazy wind that disrupted Djokovic's game he would not have won the USO. And if not for the Fed-DelPo suicide semi-final we would not have won the Olympics.

The guy is at the same level he has ever been, maybe a notch better mentally. He did not turn into a multi-slam winning beast overnight, despite all the bandwagoning here.

tennis_pro 11-11-2012 03:59 PM

He maxed out on his potential. Put everything he had into that last set of the US Open final.

Seriously, though, I think that he "loosened" up a bit after winning that first major, maybe he's not willing to give it his best effort?

veroniquem 11-11-2012 04:09 PM

It's a great year for Murray: Olympic gold + 1 slam. (Beats his usual 2 master titles a year for sure!). No offense to Murray fans but the USO win was a bit lucky because Nole got screwed by the schedule and came up short physically in the 5th and also because he avoided Fed. Murray is a great player but he's not in the same league as the big 3 achievement-wise. And he may never be. His other problem is that, unlike the other top 3, he has a poor record on clay. He's more specialized in fast surfaces. He's also not as solid mentally imo.
I still think he'll win Wimbledon one day.

Mainad 11-11-2012 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceansize (Post 7009248)
I too thought after winning a Slam, he would be able to relax and enjoy his tennis more. However, he still seems uptight and prone to taking the 'try not to lose' mentality on to the court.

I'm thinking it's time to accept that Murray will never be able to consistently play attacking, positive tennis like Federer and Djokovic have done. I know lots of people would say he's just not as talented as these guys, but personally, i think he's not far off, it's just that he's mentally too negative and nervous in the big matches.

I think I agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceansize (Post 7009248)
Who knows, a holiday and some time with Lendl and his sports psychologist might be able to help in the off season.

He's been with Lendl for almost a year now. Sure, he helped him to win his first Grand Slam but it's seemed all a bit downhill since then. I do wonder how much more time would he need to spend with him to become consistently more confident in his matches? You're probably right that he's never going to be as consistent as Djokovic, Federer and Nadal have been.

Mainad 11-11-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009277)
If not for the crazy wind that disrupted Djokovic's game he would not have won the USO. And if not for the Fed-DelPo suicide semi-final we would not have won the Olympics.

Oh come on, not this again. If only wishes were fishes and my uncle was only my aunt! How come the wind only blew on Djokovic's side of the court? And if Fed had beaten Delpo 6-0,6-0 in their Olympic semi or vice versa, how the heck do we know what would have happened in the final?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009277)
The guy is at the same level he has ever been, maybe a notch better mentally. He did not turn into a multi-slam winning beast overnight, despite all the bandwagoning here.

You're probably right. But you have to give Murray some credit for his successes. They can't ALL be down to wind factors or opponents' off-days. If you truly believe that, then you're basically saying Murray is an EXCEPTIONALLY lucky player, virtually unique in the entire annals of the tour! Is that really what you want to say?

RF-17-GOAT 11-11-2012 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheF1Bob (Post 7009166)
You need to chill out mate. He's still playing at good level, better than last year. It's just Novak and Fed are getting the better of him in this moment of time.

Raonic played lights out on the MP and Paris he was never gonna take seriously.

I agree tbh.

norbac 11-11-2012 04:27 PM

There's really not much to it. Paris should not be even taken seriously. Tokyo and Shanghai he had his chances, just couldn't take them.

TTMR 11-11-2012 04:30 PM

Murray's actually been on the decline since about the AO 2010. That tournament was the best tennis he had ever played, and he has not replicated that feat. Of course, he was slaughtered by three-years-past-his-prime Federer in the final.

From late 2008 to early 2010 Murray could win matches even against the top players with guile, movement and cat and mouse exchanges. Now he can only win when the other guy is having a bad day or is adversely affected by the conditions.

Sure, Murray failed to lose the Olympic Gold against weary five-years-past-his-prime Federer, who, again demolished him three weeks earlier in the biggest tournament of the year. But again, there was no Nadal standing in his way, just like at Wimbledon and again at the USO. Had Nadal been there, Murray would have put up a fight but crumbled as always because Nadal does everything Murray does except better.

Murray did fail to lose the US Open as well, but he didn't even need to play particularly well there. He just needed to let the few guys left (no Fedal) fall around him due to fortuitous weather and favourable scheduling. I mean I give him credit where due, but he is nowhere near the big three and DelPo yet.

Prisoner of Birth 11-11-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTMR (Post 7009366)
Murray's actually been on the decline since about the AO 2010. That tournament was the best tennis he had ever played, and he has not replicated that feat. Of course, he was slaughtered by three-years-past-his-prime Federer in the final.

From late 2008 to early 2010 Murray could win matches even against the top players with guile, movement and cat and mouse exchanges. Now he can only win when the other guy is having a bad day or is adversely affected by the conditions.

Sure, Murray failed to lose the Olympic Gold against weary five-years-past-his-prime Federer, who, again demolished him three weeks earlier in the biggest tournament of the year. But again, there was no Nadal standing in his way, just like at Wimbledon and again at the USO. Had Nadal been there, Murray would have put up a fight but crumbled as always because Nadal does everything Murray does except better.

Murray did fail to lose the US Open as well, but he didn't even need to play particularly well there. He just needed to let the few guys left (no Fedal) fall around him due to fortuitous weather and favourable scheduling. I mean I give him credit where due, but he is nowhere near the big three and DelPo yet.

Pathetic post.

Mainad 11-11-2012 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veroniquem (Post 7009314)
It's a great year for Murray: Olympic gold + 1 slam. (Beats his usual 2 master titles a year for sure!). No offense to Murray fans but the USO win was a bit lucky because Nole got screwed by the schedule and came up short physically in the 5th and also because he avoided Fed.

I never cease to be amazed by the number of people on here who put Murray's USO win down to mere luck, as if he basically played no part in it at all! Djokovic's schedule? He played about 5 hours less at the USO than Murray did! Murray had to struggle through several very difficult matches along the way. Djokovic just cruised through. His only hitch being the gale that forced his semi with Ferrer to be postponed. And if you want to dismiss Murray's win because of his opponent's schedule, does that same criteria apply to Federer's 2008 win? After all, Murray's semi with Nadal carried over 2 days because of yet another gale and then he had to play the final the following day after Fed had had a nice 2 days rest! Yet Murray always gets mocked and laughed at because of his poor performance in that first Slam final! Sauce for the goose etc.

As for Nole's fitness. It's true that he seemed to run out of gas in the 5th set but how does that detract from Murray's win? Djokovic is supposed to be the fittest guy on tour. And does that make his 2011 win over Nadal also lucky as it was Nadal, hitherto the fittest guy on tour, who ran out of gas in the 4th set of their final? As for not having to play Federer, well what can one say? If Federer wasn't good enough to get past Berdych, he probably wouldn't have been good enough to get past Murray who had the confidence of having beaten him in the Olympic final!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009277)
Murray is a great player but he's not in the same league as the big 3 achievement-wise. And he may never be. His other problem is that, unlike the other top 3, he has a poor record on clay. He's more specialized in fast surfaces. He's also not as solid mentally imo.

Can't argue with much of this. The other top 3 are all multi-Slam winners with many more titles and all have been world #1. Murray has only just won his first Slam and is still far off the number 1 ranking. He has no titles on clay. All true. But I'm wondering why his form has suffered since the USO win when you would have expected the opposite to have been the case!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009277)
I still think he'll win Wimbledon one day.

I do hope so! :)

Ginger ninja 11-11-2012 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009277)
If not for the crazy wind that disrupted Djokovic's game he would not have won the USO. And if not for the Fed-DelPo suicide semi-final we would not have won the Olympics.

The guy is at the same level he has ever been, maybe a notch better mentally. He did not turn into a multi-slam winning beast overnight, despite all the bandwagoning here.

What a load of crap. He's the only one of the top 4 to win his first major against another one of the top 4. He did amazingly well to come back and win the 5th set at the USO (when the wind wasn't much of a factor), federer was probably tired at the Olympics but Murray dismantled him nonetheless.

Give the guy a break, he's a top player and will be contesting, and winning, grand slam finals for the next 5 years.

Netspirit 11-11-2012 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mainad (Post 7009348)
How come the wind only blew on Djokovic's side of the court?

"How come the clay is slow and high-bouncing on Nadal's side of the court?" No, clay is slow everywhere but is it the very reason why Nadal wins.

Similarly, the wind neutralizes offense in tennis, rewards high-percentage play, gives pushers an advantage over shot-makers, and that 's why Murray beat Djokovic. I am not saying it is not deserved, I am saying the conditions were very unique and this victory does not suggest that Murray suddenly became a tennis legend, will be spanking Djokovic and everybody should be shocked by his SF exit.

Quote:

And if Fed had beaten Delpo 6-0,6-0 in their Olympic semi or vice versa, how the heck do we know what would have happened in the final?
We are not talking "ifs" here. Federer was physically and mentally drained after the semi-final, which he said himself after it was over. His play in the final was a clear indication of that.

Quote:

you're basically saying Murray is an EXCEPTIONALLY lucky player, virtually unique in the entire annals of the tour! Is that really what you want to say?
I want to say that Murray is a one-slam champion, good player like good one-slam champions before him, he has potential to become better and win more, but right now his improvements are moderate and people should not jump his bandwagon just because of the Olympic tournament and the USO. He still has stuff to prove.

roundiesee 11-11-2012 04:46 PM

I think we should acknowledge that Andy had a great year; there is normally a "let-down" after such a great performance, but we shouldn't be too harsh on him for these recent "failures".

Ginger ninja 11-11-2012 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009399)
"How come the clay is slow and high-bouncing on Nadal's side of the court?" No, clay is slow everywhere but is it the very reason why Nadal wins.

Similarly, the wind neutralizes offense in tennis, rewards high-percentage play, gives pushers an advantage over shot-makers, and that 's why Murray beat Djokovic. I am not saying it is not deserved, I am saying the conditions were very unique and this victory does not suggest that Murray suddenly became a tennis legend, will be spanking Djokovic and everybody should be shocked by his SF exit.



We are not talking "ifs" here. Federer was physically and mentally drained after the semi-final, which he said himself after it was over. His play in the final was a clear indication of that.



I want to say that Murray is a one-slam champion, good player like good one-slam champions before him, he has potential to become better and win more, but right now his improvements are moderate and people should not jump his bandwagon just because of the Olympic tournament and the USO. He still has stuff to prove.

We'll hear the same nonsense when he's only a two/three/four slam champion, then he'll be crap because he hasn't completed the career grand slam. Get a grip. He's probably already in the top 15 players ever to have played the game.

Mainad 11-11-2012 04:50 PM

Deleted post.


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