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-   -   Federer made 100% of 2nd serve returns today (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445466)

smoledman 11-11-2012 04:16 PM

Federer made 100% of 2nd serve returns today
 
Sure he pushed a lot of them, but it's definitely better to put yourself into every point then keep shanking them wide or into the net. You can't win the point if you lose it right away. Surely this creates a new mindset with him to make all the returns and keep improving their quality in 2013.

RF20Lennon 11-11-2012 04:35 PM

yes but if its against Nadal he gets burned!! against Murray and this court it works because the ball stays low but remember in the 2010 and 2011 WTF when he beat Rafa he did it because of aggressive returning he needs to do both

kishnabe 11-11-2012 06:06 PM

Murray just pushes the ball back to Federer backhand. Federer doesn't feel threatned by giving Murray a puff ball.

Netspirit 11-11-2012 06:09 PM

He is used to slice his returns cross-court. That's what he did most of the time until he hired Annacone.

It works well against righties on low-bouncing courts.

smoledman 11-11-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netspirit (Post 7009456)
He is used to slice his returns cross-court. That's what he did most of the time until he hired Annacone.

It works well against righties on low-bouncing courts.

Of course the same return goes straight to Nadal's forehand.

The Bawss 11-11-2012 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoledman (Post 7009183)
Sure he pushed a lot of them, but it's definitely better to put yourself into every point then keep shanking them wide or into the net. You can't win the point if you lose it right away. Surely this creates a new mindset with him to make all the returns and keep improving their quality in 2013.

Murray's second serve is so bad, not surprised Fed can 100% that weak tea.

joeri888 11-12-2012 12:15 AM

He sliced a lot, but was very aggressive with the slice. It's still quite outstanding that he made them all. It's not like the slice is always a safe shot. When you are chip and chargin, you are gonna put something on it, for sure. Plus, he was pretty agressive with the forehand return as well.

TennisLovaLova 11-12-2012 01:08 AM

that's a sick sick stat
but why Federer doesnt simply finish the points on that lame 2nd serve of Murray?
he could crush it most of the time but he doesnt...

joeri888 11-12-2012 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisLovaLova (Post 7010142)
that's a sick sick stat
but why Federer doesnt simply finish the points on that lame 2nd serve of Murray?
he could crush it most of the time but he doesnt...

Because he usually misses a lot of backhand returns. Plus, he also would play more into Murray's strength. Murray likes the quick rallies. He's faster than Roger, and a higher ball like a topspin backhand would give Murray more of an edge, while with his slice, Roger forced Murray to either slice back, or play the ball a bit higher. In both ways, Roger would have a good chance to attack the second ball.

Prisoner of Birth 11-12-2012 01:18 AM

I really think Federer should be way, way, way more aggressive with his 2nd serve returns. It not only swings the point in your favor (at the expense of a few immediate point-losses of course) but also puts your opponent in a lot of pressure. Federer can be a lot more successful against Nadal and Murray if he attacks their 2nd serve.

joeri888 11-12-2012 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth (Post 7010161)
I really think Federer should be way, way, way more aggressive with his 2nd serve returns. It not only swings the point in your favor (at the expense of a few immediate point-losses of course) but also puts your opponent in a lot of pressure. Federer can be a lot more successful against Nadal and Murray if he attacks their 2nd serve.

How is chip and charge not an aggressive return?

Prisoner of Birth 11-12-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 7010164)
How is chip and charge not an aggressive return?

"Chip and charge" is not a return, it's a way of play. I'm talking only about his returns. Chipping isn't aggressive in any way.

joeri888 11-12-2012 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth (Post 7010167)
"Chip and charge" is not a return, it's a way of play. I'm talking only about his returns. Chipping isn't aggressive in any way.

Chipping with the purpose of following it to the net is a very aggressive way to return serve.

Prisoner of Birth 11-12-2012 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeri888 (Post 7010174)
Chipping with the purpose of following it to the net is a very aggressive way to return serve.

Okay, that I concede. But how many times did he do that? Thrice? He has to do a lot better. More aggressive returning will also make his chip-and-charges more effective and unpredictable.

TennisLovaLova 11-12-2012 02:35 AM

^^ you're right
didnt see it that way until the replays I just watched
it's very efficient indeed

another thing ESPN commentators were talking about, is Federer stuborness when it comes to how and where he positions himself on the return of serve.
They say he should move away from the baseline and that he has to make the same adjustment Nadal made against him and that somehow was what changer in the way Nadal returned Fed's serve better the following years.
any ideas about this?

Tafmatch 11-12-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prisoner of Birth (Post 7010161)
I really think Federer should be way, way, way more aggressive with his 2nd serve returns. It not only swings the point in your favor (at the expense of a few immediate point-losses of course) but also puts your opponent in a lot of pressure. Federer can be a lot more successful against Nadal and Murray if he attacks their 2nd serve.

Fed doesn't use the same return-strategy every match. I'm quite certain that he would have returned differently against Nadal.
His 'passive' slicereturns did the job against Murray so no need for more risky BH-returns.

Warmaster 11-12-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisLovaLova (Post 7010220)
^^ you're right
didnt see it that way until the replays I just watched
it's very efficient indeed

another thing ESPN commentators were talking about, is Federer stuborness when it comes to how and where he positions himself on the return of serve.
They say he should move away from the baseline and that he has to make the same adjustment Nadal made against him and that somehow was what changer in the way Nadal returned Fed's serve better the following years.
any ideas about this?

It something that's been annoying me for a while now. He stands really close to the baseline, which can be a good thing, but if you're making around 40% first serve returns, you might want to take a step back.

It's definitely the right thing to do on the second serve though, he doesn't want to get drawn into long baseline rallies too often.

NLBwell 11-19-2012 08:49 AM

Federer is very smart in not going for any more than he has to. If he isn't punished for floating returns back, that's what he should do. It's then up to his opponent to punish them and force Fed to do more with the ball.


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