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-   -   Syn gut has less elasticity then multi's. How does this effect playability? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445613)

newyorkstadium 11-13-2012 12:26 AM

Syn gut has less elasticity then multi's. How does this affect playability?
 
Does it mean it is less powerful? What about feel & touch?

If synthetic's have less power, can't I just drop the tension down a bit?

newyorkstadium 11-13-2012 07:30 AM

Also, does synthetic gut lose more/less elasticity then multi?

fortun8son 11-13-2012 07:44 PM

That's not really true.
Some synguts are more elastic than some multis and some multis have less power than some synguts.
A good example is LightningXX(syngut w/power) vs. Mantis Comfort Synthetic(elastic multi w/very little power).
AFAIK there has been no testing for elasticity or loss thereof.

newyorkstadium 11-14-2012 12:43 AM

What are the advantages of multi's over synthetic gut, if not elasticity?
I thought the hundreds of individual fibers made multi's more elastic?

If a string is less powerful/stiffer, can I just drop the tension down a bit?

robbo1970 11-14-2012 04:33 AM

Does that extra elasticity with a multi make it more durable as it copes with movement better?

newyorkstadium 11-14-2012 12:44 PM

bumping this, since I posted it a at 1.43 american time

pvaudio 11-14-2012 01:17 PM

In general, you would be correct. However, this is not necessarily true. Reason being, the elasticity is dependent on the material. Here's a thought question: Prince makes Prince Synthetic Gut, and up until a little while ago made a string called Prince Synthetic Gut Multifilament. It was essentially the exact same material, only the multi was stranded around a much smaller 3-solid-core bundle. However, given that the material is the same in both strings, which of these two is more elastic? The original solid core, or the multifilament version?

newyorkstadium 11-14-2012 01:20 PM

What are the advantages of multi's over synthetic gut, if not elasticity? Do they have more feel & touch?

I thought the hundreds of individual fibers made multi's more elastic.

If a string is less powerful/stiffer, can I just drop the tension down a bit?

Does that extra elasticity with a multi make it more durable as it copes with movement better?

pvaudio 11-14-2012 01:24 PM

The purpose of my question is, why are you concerned about elasticity in the first place?

newyorkstadium 11-14-2012 01:26 PM

I wish to know how elasticity affects playing characteristics. From what I've read, the advantage of multi's over synthetic gut is more elasticity/lower stiffness.

pvaudio 11-14-2012 01:50 PM

Alrighty, I'll stop being cryptic and just use an example to lead you to what I think is your desired answer. We are going to ignore tennis strings for a moment and instead talk about wires. Strings are strings as far as material properties go, so this shouldn't make much difference. For this example, we're going to use copper since most people are familiar with it if they've ever wired up a speaker.

We have two wires of 1m in length and 1cm in diameter: one is a solid core conductor, the other is a multi stranded wire like the wires that are used to wire up high voltage electrical components (simply think about a big extension cord). Now, pull tension of 60lbs on both (both ends of the string are fastnened). You'll notice something immediately: the solid core wire hardly changes shape but the multi-stranded wire stretches a bit. Why? The solid core wire is relying solely on stiffness, and yes, it has been deformed permanently albeit slightly. The stranded wire, however, has had the tension divided amongst each and every string which does not exceed their individual elastic limit. Therefore, they can stretch just slightly. Having tensioned them, go to the center of each string and press down until the string is deflected 1cm. Now you'll see that the solid core wire is simply bent in the middle, but the stranded wire was more or less "plucked" and is vibrating. This simple test can be replicated with tennis strings with the same results (it would obviously need to be scaled).

The point is, the solid core string is less elastic even though the material in both has the same stiffness. Stiffness is the ability for a material to resist deformation and elasticity is the ability for it to return to shape after being deformed. The copper in both has the exact same stiffness. The only difference is that since you bundled them together into many many many tiny strands, you've increased the elasticity of a very stiff string. The fact that it's vibrating instead of being permanently bent as a whole reflects this.

The problem is this: the multifilament was still stressed and is still slightly deformed. This means that it will be able to hold its tension greater than the solid core string, but only over a long period of time. It is, however, less durable from our standpoint. The reason has nothing to do with anything talked about above: it's because since the string is going to be moving more, it will experience much more wear. Those individual strands break very easily compared to a very thick one, and as the strands break, the tension is going to be held by fewer and fewer strands which will be able to hold the tension less and less. However, many strands holding a lot of tension will deform much less than one large strand holding a lot of tension. Keep in mind aside from the wire analogy, this durability aspect applies to tennis strings, and nothing else where the strings are not just tensioned, but also abraded by one another.

newyorkstadium 11-14-2012 02:04 PM

Can the strands break inside the outer coating without it being visible?

So does elasticity impact feel, touch & control?

What happens when a string loses it's elasticity? Does it go "dead"?

Will a multi/syn gut of same stiffness, have the same power?

If a string is less powerful/stiffer, can I just drop the tension down a bit? Will this give the low tension/stiff string more control then the less stiff/higher tension string?

mikeler 11-14-2012 02:48 PM

Just buy the strings and hit with them!

mrmike 11-14-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 7016670)
Just buy the strings and hit with them!

Amen. Try 'em out and see what you prefer. Sometimes the playing characteristics are a lot more subtle than theoretics. I generally have been preferring multis lately since as a group they tend to be more arm friendly.

MikeHitsHard93 11-14-2012 03:13 PM

Lol PV you did your best... To the OP: every string is different and you cannot simply narrow it down to a science. Try em out for $15 a piece and let us know what you think you have discovered

pvaudio 11-14-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHitsHard93 (Post 7016727)
Lol PV you did your best... To the OP: every string is different and you cannot simply narrow it down to a science. Try em out for $15 a piece and let us know what you think you have discovered

Haha I tried, but I just abide by the mikeler school of thought. It's the most reliable method :lol:

fortun8son 11-14-2012 08:25 PM

One problem with a general comparison is that while most synguts have very similar construction, multi is a catch-all term that includes everything from soft, comfy stuff like Sensation to firm, harsher stuff like FXP Control.
A very wide selection from Alphagut2000 to NXT Tour.
Get my drift?
They are all very elastic strings because they are mainly nylon.
The differences between strings of similar construction are subtle.

Polys are a bit different because different heat treatment and extrusion processes can change what is essentially the same material.
Aramids are in a class by themselves.

The elasticity question kinda bothers me because it's not really relevant to the performance of the string.
It's like asking if a string plays better because it does or does not exhibit 'ghosting'.

MikeHitsHard93 11-14-2012 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvaudio (Post 7016907)
Haha I tried, but I just abide by the mikeler school of thought. It's the most reliable method :lol:

Sometimes that is all you can do. Think to yourself: "what would mikeler do?"

newyorkstadium 11-15-2012 12:11 AM

I thought elasticity made a string more powerful? So, with a multi/syn gut of the same stiffness, the multi is more powerful?

This would be useful to me, as I wouldn't have to waste money on re-stringing to find the right tension. I do intend to playtest some more strings.

Can the strands break inside the outer coating without it being visible, giving it invisible tension loss?

What happens when a string loses it's elasticity? Does it go "dead"?

fortun8son 11-15-2012 01:00 AM

Yes, more elastic strings are more powerful and, no, multis do not break from the inside-out. they usually fray from the outside-in.
Multis will fray, when a syngut frays, it's ready to break.


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