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-   -   most of the time, strings importance is WAYYYYY overrated? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445689)

Rozroz 11-14-2012 03:25 AM

most of the time, strings importance is WAYYYYY overrated?
 
if a 60 yrs old flat hitter who changes his strings once a year cannot feel any difference and still control and bagel me forever, while i feel my strings already dead after 8 hrs and "my control has changed", something must be really exaggerated here imo.

discuss!

danotje 11-14-2012 04:29 AM

I think the difference is "can play with" and "playability". I can play with any string in any condition. However, I like my hybrid of IBS/OGSM after about 30 mins of play best. It just feels great. I'm getting both the pace and spin that I'm asking for. In fact, I get a bit of a boost from having a set up in the sweet spot. Hence, I just play better. Good vibes.

Also, I hit with a lot of topsin. Pace is easy enough to generate with anything, and so is spin, too, albeit to a lesser degee, but to get that extra angle or bounce with massive spin, strings have an impact. I've been testing out some different polys and found that SPPP requires a lot more effort to get good spin than BHBR. However, the feel of SPPP was far superior to me. Look around the boards a bit, and that certainly isn't the usual finding. It all boils down to choice which I think is largely based on feel. That's why if a rec player wants to use a poly, then why not?

bad_call 11-14-2012 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7015521)
if a 60 yrs old flat hitter who changes his strings once a year cannot feel any difference and still control and bagel me forever, while i feel my strings already dead after 8 hrs and "my control has changed", something must be really exaggerated here imo.

discuss!

once a year ? dude - find out what he uses and post pls. :)

Rozroz 11-14-2012 04:45 AM

i really think this is strange.
i DO understand all about the great feeling fresh strings have and those differences between them, but if it means almost nothing in terms of keeping the ball in and win games, then i guess i have to re-think the whole process.
or maybe those big differences arise mainly when using poly?
or maybe when someone has only flat strokes it doesn't really matter?
(in fact, this guy has no real technique! he told me he just learned to play and hit as it came out for him. and it's goddamn effective even with his lousy year old nylon or whatever strings)

anubis 11-14-2012 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7015521)
if a 60 yrs old flat hitter who changes his strings once a year cannot feel any difference and still control and bagel me forever, while i feel my strings already dead after 8 hrs and "my control has changed", something must be really exaggerated here imo.

discuss!

It has nothing to do with strings. He's just a better player than you. Roddick can defeat any of us in a match with a frying pan, because he's better.

Strings aren't a measure of someone's skills on the court. They're just a tool.

stringertom 11-14-2012 05:58 AM

IMO, a "flatter" hitter would be more affected by tension and playability loss from old, dead strings bcoz he would have less margin of error on his shots. It sounds like your crafty opponent has uncanny ability to adjust to the playing characteristics of his string set-up and his success vs you is undermining your confidence in what you rely on. If you're doing well vs other opponents it's not the equipment issues that need to be addressed. I'd work on searching for the little "chinks in his armor"...what shots he handles less easily (I hit fairly flat and don't like stuff high to my 2hbh and changing depths of shots; would that frustrate him?).

Rozroz 11-14-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis (Post 7015653)
It has nothing to do with strings. He's just a better player than you. Roddick can defeat any of us in a match with a frying pan, because he's better.

Strings aren't a measure of someone's skills on the court. They're just a tool.

i know the old frying pan example, obviously he's better than me and has more experience and feel of the game,
what i meant is that i was astonished how come he doesn't feel or care for changes in his string.. while i really notice a difference and feel i need to change. i know a big part of it is psychological, but still- if he can handle a lousy string and it does nothing to his game (and never have), why am i bothering with any changes at all? only because he's better than me?
this usually suppose to be the opposite (pros have to change after a few games etc..)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stringertom (Post 7015654)
IMO, a "flatter" hitter would be more affected by tension and playability loss from old, dead strings bcoz he would have less margin of error on his shots. It sounds like your crafty opponent has uncanny ability to adjust to the playing characteristics of his string set-up and his success vs you is undermining your confidence in what you rely on. If you're doing well vs other opponents it's not the equipment issues that need to be addressed. I'd work on searching for the little "chinks in his armor"...what shots he handles less easily (I hit fairly flat and don't like stuff high to my 2hbh and changing depths of shots; would that frustrate him?).

yea, i'm wondering on that flat/spin relationship vs the strings, and what you say have far more logic than the opposite- still confused.
about the game strategy, i'll discuss this more on the tips forum i guess. right now i think i'll take a break from him. it was ridiculous really:
five or six sets with the last ones taking 5 minutes each :(
the funny thing was that in our previous matches i managed to take one set from him 6-3 when i played really perfect.

i mainly wondering about the strings issues for now.

pvaudio 11-14-2012 06:43 AM

Let me give you a perfect example. Strings are only important enough to keep the space in the hoop from being open, BUT, the can make or break your experience. As I mentioned elsewhere, I tried Yonex PTP and it felt like rubbish. I could still hit all the shots I know how to hit, but it just did not feel nice. It felt like hitting with plastic. I then restrung to my favorite Scorpion, and I'm not kidding, the level of fun shot up. I get the feedback I'm looking for and the feel I'm looking for, and that's worth everything to me. Could I win a match with the Yonex that I could with the Scorpion? Yes. Would I be enjoying it as much? Nope.

Power Player 11-14-2012 06:50 AM

I knew nothing about strings before I found this site. I played as a junior for years with full beds of POSG or natural gut. I beat a lot of people, but I will say that I am a better player now.

If you are using full poly and he is using syn gut or natural gut then that is a reason he never switches. But how are you a 4.5 getting double bagled over and over by a guy who doesn't ever break strings?

Rozroz 11-14-2012 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7015695)
But how are you a 4.5 getting double bagled over and over by a guy who doesn't ever break strings?

he is simply better. what does it has to do with breaking strings?
(he's a match partner not a 4.5 league player)
SPIN is the major string breaker. flat is not (or far far far less).
most chances he'll beat most of you here.
again, WHEN my serve is grooving, WHEN i hit deep enough and WHEN i'm focused enough, i COULD take a set of him once in a while.
but i only wanted to discuss the strings angle.

Rozroz 11-14-2012 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvaudio (Post 7015687)
Let me give you a perfect example. Strings are only important enough to keep the space in the hoop from being open, BUT, the can make or break your experience. As I mentioned elsewhere, I tried Yonex PTP and it felt like rubbish. I could still hit all the shots I know how to hit, but it just did not feel nice. It felt like hitting with plastic. I then restrung to my favorite Scorpion, and I'm not kidding, the level of fun shot up. I get the feedback I'm looking for and the feel I'm looking for, and that's worth everything to me. Could I win a match with the Yonex that I could with the Scorpion? Yes. Would I be enjoying it as much? Nope.

if we are talking about the FUN factor i totally agree.
so you're saying you could take you dead strings racquet and play the same?
well maybe that's indeed a factor of enough experience and game level.

stringertom 11-14-2012 07:17 AM

Have you tried textured or geometric polys? I've had good luck with SP Tornado, a heptagonal textured poly that holds tension really well, especially when you mimic the Fed setup (nattie main/poly cross). Expensive with the nattie but worth it if you don't shred it quickly.

Rabbit 11-14-2012 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7015695)
But how are you a 4.5 getting double bagled over and over by a guy who doesn't ever break strings?

I love this.

Breaking strings has zero to do with results on court. Guga Kuerten used to have 3 racquets in his bag, all strung the same with ALU. 3, that's it. I don't ever remember seeing him break strings. I dare say he was a slightly better than a 4.5.

In the 'old days' with wooden frames, you had one frame. Strings were densely patterned and you would rarely break gut. If you did, you either borrowed a frame or quit playing. This, of course, was before league play.

Breaking or not breaking strings has zero to do with winning or losing. If a guy hits through the ball fairly level, he will not move the mains enough to cause excessive sawing by the crosses. My old doubles partner was like this. He could play with 17 gauge syn gut and never broke a string. He and I played 5.0 together. I strung his racquets once a year just because he did my taxes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rozroz (Post 7015521)
if a 60 yrs old flat hitter who changes his strings once a year cannot feel any difference and still control and bagel me forever, while i feel my strings already dead after 8 hrs and "my control has changed", something must be really exaggerated here imo.

discuss!

I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm 54 and play occasionally get invited to play with some 20-30 something ex-college players. I string for a couple of them. One in particular plays with a Babolat Pure Drive that is absolutely about to disintegrate. He knocks the cover off the ball. The 1st time I strung for him I asked him what he wanted in it and what tension. He said whatever's in there now, and tight. It was Prince synthetic 16 and I strung it at the top of the recommended tension. I asked him how it felt after I gave it to him. He said "OK". This guy also wraps his over grips bottom up and uses the sticky tab to fasten it at the top.

It's guys like this that made me start to question my "obsession" with string. A close buddy of mine had the same experience. We were both using natural gut. He started using Prince Syn Gut Poly @ $5.25 and I started playing around with plain jane syn gut. I did find that using Prince Beast helped me off the ground and I may go to the $5 poly syn combo. But yeah, we both were going WTF?

I went back and tried my old go to, Timo. I hit really well with it, but after that, my arm was worn out for two days. So, I decided to try some newer polys and did find that the newer ones give you a lot of the poly benefits without the pain.

Also, and just BTW, the buddy of mine has a son who is ranked top 10 in the South in the 12's. He was stringing his frames with gut/poly cause his son wanted it. The pro he works with was telling him he should spend the money elsewhere. His son went to a regional tournament. In one match, he broke strings in 3 racquets. My friend cut him over to the $5.25 string. He asked his son how it felt. His son said "OK." He hasn't missed a lick, but he's still taking names and kicking *****.

On the flip side of this, there are a couple of 5.0 really good guys I string for who refuse to let me change their setup. They demand full poly at a high tension and both of them are constantly b!tching about their arms hurting. They just won't change, so maybe the setup is producing results they don't feel they could get otherwise.

In summary, yeah, strings and tension are as important IMO as the frame. For some people, like the guys I mentioned above, they're good enough that they can do it with anything. The rest of us do probably spend too much time trying to find nirvana.

Rabbit 11-14-2012 08:17 AM

I should add that when I used the C10, I had a go to setup and probably played better than anytime ever. I was using Luxilon Timo 17 @ 54 and then cut over to Pacific Poly Force Original 17 @ 54 which plays identically. Unfortunately, while my results were great, my arm was not. :)

mikeler 11-14-2012 08:21 AM

I used to play a 5.0 once a week who used a full job of PSGD 16. He would even double pull the strings when he strung it up.

Rozroz 11-14-2012 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit (Post 7015801)
I love this.

Breaking strings has zero to do with results on court.


In summary, yeah, strings and tension are as important IMO as the frame. For some people, like the guys I mentioned above, they're good enough that they can do it with anything. The rest of us do probably spend too much time trying to find nirvana.

indeed string breaking has nada to do with level, why would you think that PP?

so what you're saying is that the old guy can play his flat game on his year old strings.
SO-
is this because his game DOESN'T NEED the string "extra help"?
i don't get this. if the string was fresh and now it's dry and lose, how come it doesn't bother him and his game is untroubled? it's either he don't need any benefit of any string put on, or he subconsciously adjusts to the string change. if he told me "i don't really care about the string and just change it after 1-2 years"- i don't see any other option.

Power Player 11-14-2012 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbit (Post 7015801)
I love this.

Breaking strings has zero to do with results on court. Guga Kuerten used to have 3 racquets in his bag, all strung the same with ALU. 3, that's it. I don't ever remember seeing him break strings. I dare say he was a slightly better than a 4.5.

In the 'old days' with wooden frames, you had one frame. Strings were densely patterned and you would rarely break gut. If you did, you either borrowed a frame or quit playing. This, of course, was before league play.

Breaking or not breaking strings has zero to do with winning or losing. If a guy hits through the ball fairly level, he will not move the mains enough to cause excessive sawing by the crosses. My old doubles partner was like this. He could play with 17 gauge syn gut and never broke a string. He and I played 5.0 together. I strung his racquets once a year just because he did my taxes.


You love this. LOL. Ok man..a guy plays with a syn gut for a year and doesn't break strings and you use Kuertan, a doubles partner as an example and wooden frames as well.

I am sorry but it is ONE YEAR of a guy not breaking strings in 2012 facing modern styles of play. I have never seen that before personally. Maybe he uses kevlar or something. But to play singles at a 4.5 level means you are dealing with some hot serves and heavy strokes and will break a string within a years time.

Roz, I guess you'd have to describe this guys game better. The best old guy I play is a master of placement and slice and he breaks his strings at a decent rate.

I dont think breaking strings means someone is good or bad. But I do think a higher level player will break string more than once a year due to the above that I described.

Power Player 11-14-2012 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 7015825)
I used to play a 5.0 once a week who used a full job of PSGD 16. He would even double pull the strings when he strung it up.

I am going to throw that exact setup into one of my blades just because I still believe it at worst to be a great "bailout" setup if your 2 main sticks break strings, and at best, your daily go to.

Rozroz 11-14-2012 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7015870)
Roz, I guess you'd have to describe this guys game better. The best old guy I play is a master of placement and slice and he breaks his strings at a decent rate.

I dont think breaking strings means someone is good or bad. But I do think a higher level player will break string more than once a year due to the above that I described.

i can consider couple of things..

first, i don't think a decent 4.5 level can't 'survive' without a 'power' game.
if you have decent serves and good placement you can quite succeed.
same goes for the strokes. if you have good placement and game 'vision' you could outwin many power players.

i can describe the guy's game:
ALL FLAT strokes, no spin at all. no real technique just self learned very efficient LOW strokes. he claims he started playing and taught himself tennis at 35. has stable and placed serves. i can attack the second but he control my game atm. and when in need manages to run and prepare very well to most balls, in worst case defend them deep enough to recover.
doesn't slice much, only when needed. punish every weakness. trying to paint the lines and does it well 90% of the times, low and flat, not necessarily with a lot of power.
imo this way of playing saves a string from breaking for a long time, and apparently doesn't effect his game at all even if the string's done.

i'll probably video a game sometime and post it at the tips forum to think how to win him. but we're talking string effectiveness here, so...

Power Player 11-14-2012 09:39 AM

Yeah Id love to see it. I mean a year with no string breakage is tough to pull off if you play a lot. It really is.

I see you keep using power I guess since that's my name. But I never said that is only why strings break. I break my strings faster playing guys who serve hard and hit hard too. Which is why I am curious who this guy is playing to never mishit a heavy serve or groundie.


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