Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Strings (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   poly vs kevlar (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445832)

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 12:50 PM

poly vs kevlar
 
hi guys,

for years i've used ashaway crossfire 17, which is a 17g kevlar main with syn gut 16g. for the last couple years i've heard of all these different poly stings that claim to have tons of spin. i've finally decided to try a few of them out (hurricane pro tour 17, sspp 17g, tcs 16g, and few others and have yet to find anything that can really compare to the spin, durability, and tension maintenance of crossfire. i know that kevlar isn't great for your arm, but can anyone suggest to me a poly that has the spin potential (or close to it) of a kevlar hybrid setup? or does kevlar stand alone in the spin department.

thanks,
TF

LanEvo 11-15-2012 01:39 PM

Coming from the Forten Thin Blend combo, I found Pro Line X to be the best, with the kevlar setup I would do 48/50, kevlar being lower, and with the X, I have it at 54/56, break it in, and let the tension drop off to around 48/50, and I get something similar, but more spin, a bit less power and similar control. The feel will be a bit different, but this setup is the closest I have gotten.

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 02:12 PM

hey lanevo,

thanks for the info, however, i wasn't wondering about a hybrid setup with kevlar and a poly, rather just a poly that could stand up to the spin potential of a kevlar hybrid setup, similar to that of crossfire 17. in other words, i'm wondering if there is a poly that can give as much spin as kevlar. after reading my post again, i should have been more clear. thanks again for the info, it actually answers the question, somewhat.

best,
TF

LanEvo 11-15-2012 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfreak73 (Post 7018495)
hey lanevo,

thanks for the info, however, i wasn't wondering about a hybrid setup with kevlar and a poly, rather just a poly that could stand up to the spin potential of a kevlar hybrid setup, similar to that of crossfire 17. in other words, i'm wondering if there is a poly that can give as much spin as kevlar. after reading my post again, i should have been more clear. thanks again for the info, it actually answers the question, somewhat.

best,
TF

Oh I guess I did not clarify, this is full bed of Pro Line X @ 54/56.

pvaudio 11-15-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfreak73 (Post 7018495)
hey lanevo,

thanks for the info, however, i wasn't wondering about a hybrid setup with kevlar and a poly, rather just a poly that could stand up to the spin potential of a kevlar hybrid setup, similar to that of crossfire 17. in other words, i'm wondering if there is a poly that can give as much spin as kevlar. after reading my post again, i should have been more clear. thanks again for the info, it actually answers the question, somewhat.

best,
TF

Poly is designed to and does generate more spin than Kevlar. It is why Kevlar is more or less obsolete: poly does absolutely everything better. Pros who used to use Kevlar are now using poly for this reason.

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 02:57 PM

that's very interesting, pv. would you say the same in a hybrid poly setup with the poly as the main and syn gut as a cross? or does a full bed and hybrid (syn gut) generate relatively the same amount of spin?

tlm 11-15-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvaudio (Post 7018526)
Poly is designed to and does generate more spin than Kevlar. It is why Kevlar is more or less obsolete: poly does absolutely everything better. Pros who used to use Kevlar are now using poly for this reason.

Poly does not do everything better. Poly can never compare to the consistent control of kevlar, never especially after a few hours or days. Pro players change their string jobs every ball change which is around a half hour or so.

So us amateur players that use a string job for much longer will not enjoy the magic of poly that only lasts for a hour or two.

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7018579)
So us amateur players that use a string job for much longer will not enjoy the magic of poly that only lasts for a hour or two.

i think in a nut shell this was my point. the "wow" factor really does fade after a few hours, while kevlar remains fairly consistent.

tlm 11-15-2012 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfreak73 (Post 7018367)
hi guys,

for years i've used ashaway crossfire 17, which is a 17g kevlar main with syn gut 16g. for the last couple years i've heard of all these different poly stings that claim to have tons of spin. i've finally decided to try a few of them out (hurricane pro tour 17, sspp 17g, tcs 16g, and few others and have yet to find anything that can really compare to the spin, durability, and tension maintenance of crossfire. i know that kevlar isn't great for your arm, but can anyone suggest to me a poly that has the spin potential (or close to it) of a kevlar hybrid setup? or does kevlar stand alone in the spin department.

thanks,
TF

There are a lot of poly strings that will produce a lot of spin, but they also will produce a lot more power than what your kevlar does. I know what you mean about the spin kevlar produces, but most here claim that kevlar is no where near as good at producing spin as poly does but I am not so sure. This is coming from quoted lab tests, I don't think that many here that make these claims have actually tried kevlar very much to make a good comparison.

I am in the same boat as you I am trying to get away from kevlar, I have found quite a few polys that will produce great spin. But the problem is that after the first hour or so the poly loses its magic and control. And by the next day it will feel a little better and softer but it loses a lot of control. Where kevlar usually plays better the next day and will maintain its control for days.

tlm 11-15-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfreak73 (Post 7018597)
i think in a nut shell this was my point. the "wow" factor really does fade after a few hours, while kevlar remains fairly consistent.

Exactly there is nothing like fresh poly I love it but not for long. Kevlar to me remains very consistent even though it loses tension quickly it does not become a trampoline like poly does.

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 03:37 PM

tlm, I've used Kevlar for years so i know from experience that I get more spin and control from Kevlar, overtime. What I don't like
is the pounding my arm takes after using it for a few days. I'm going to stick with the poly, however it is frustrating, at times, to feel like you've found "the string" only to have a different one the next day.

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 03:38 PM

Tlm, very well said on all I the above!

corners 11-15-2012 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7018600)
There are a lot of poly strings that will produce a lot of spin, but they also will produce a lot more power than what your kevlar does. I know what you mean about the spin kevlar produces, but most here claim that kevlar is no where near as good at producing spin as poly does but I am not so sure. This is coming from quoted lab tests, I don't think that many here that make these claims have actually tried kevlar very much to make a good comparison.

Actually, there is no published lab data on kevlar (full bed kevlar or kevlar/syngut) spin rates in conventional string pattern, probably because Kevlar is pretty much gone from the pro game at this point so no one is studying it. So anyone claiming that copoly produces more spin than kevlar is basing those assertions on their personal experience and perceptions.

And as far as power goes, kevlar is about twice as stiff as a firm copoly like Alu Power, which means you'd get about 3 miles per hour more on an average shot with that copoly than you would with kevlar. That is quite a lot, about the same difference as between copoly and natural gut.

tlm 11-15-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfreak73 (Post 7018641)
tlm, I've used Kevlar for years so i know from experience that I get more spin and control from Kevlar, overtime. What I don't like
is the pounding my arm takes after using it for a few days. I'm going to stick with the poly, however it is frustrating, at times, to feel like you've found "the string" only to have a different one the next day.

I hear you my feelings also, I don't like the pounding my body takes from kevlar either. But the unmatched control is very hard to leave, so right now I am experimenting with different poly strings during the week. But when I play my weekend match I am still using kevlar.

tlm 11-15-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corners (Post 7018688)
Actually, there is no published lab data on kevlar (full bed kevlar or kevlar/syngut) spin rates in conventional string pattern, probably because Kevlar is pretty much gone from the pro game at this point so no one is studying it. So anyone claiming that copoly produces more spin than kevlar is basing those assertions on their personal experience and perceptions.

And as far as power goes, kevlar is about twice as stiff as a firm copoly like Alu Power, which means you'd get about 3 miles per hour more on an average shot with that copoly than you would with kevlar. That is quite a lot, about the same difference as between copoly and natural gut.

That makes sense because I can tell that the kevlar does produce less speed on my shots, which I believe helps the control. It seems like there is a built in restricted flight with kevlar that no other string has, plus there are no hot spots the entire string bed plays consistent.

You may be right about the spin data on kevlar, that came from some other posters that said that it has been proven in labs that poly produces much more spin than kevlar. In my real life hitting experience I have found kevlar to produce as much if not more spin than poly does. I believe it is the added power that poly gives is what makes some think that it is producing more spin.

tennisfreak73 11-15-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7018600)
There are a lot of poly strings that will produce a lot of spin.

TLM, can you share some of those strings and the setup you use(d)?

pvaudio 11-15-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7018579)
Poly does not do everything better. Poly can never compare to the consistent control of kevlar, never especially after a few hours or days. Pro players change their string jobs every ball change which is around a half hour or so.

So us amateur players that use a string job for much longer will not enjoy the magic of poly that only lasts for a hour or two.

This is not a general rule. Federer does this, every 6 games I believe. Venus Williams has on many occasions played with a single racquet per match when winning. This was when she played full gut, and now when playing a poly hybrid.

There is already a thread on this topic actually. For a high swing speed, poly will return more energy into the ball in the form of spin than Kevlar. As I mentioned in that thread, Agassi who used Kevlar for many many years said something to the effect that they need to let everyone know about poly or get rid of it because it produces so much spin per stroke. Sampras, upon trying it in retirement, said that it was like cheating due to the shots he could hit. Jim Courier at first didn't like poly BECAUSE it produced too much spin and he couldn't hit flat enough.

Regardless, if you feel Kevlar produces more spin, then use Kevlar. The likely reason you are getting the impression of greater spin is because Kevlar lets you swing as hard as you want at the ball, more or less. Poly, on the other hand, has more power, but greater elasticity, so if you have a less spin-generating stroke, then your impression will be that Kevlar is better for spin. I'm not going to argue why an entire industry has shifted if you personally like the spin of Kevlar.

J011yroger 11-15-2012 04:45 PM

I used Ashaway 16/ALU Rough for about 2 1/2 years after switching away from a full bed of ALU Rough due to string breakage.

Currently using BBO/ALU Rough.

It took some getting used to, but I like the Jolly Rig II a bit better, maybe?

OK, I really like the Kevlar, but it broke all my racquets. But the BBO/ALU is really good too.

Just different. And needs to be strung MUCH looser.

J

tlm 11-15-2012 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tennisfreak73 (Post 7018717)
TLM, can you share some of those strings and the setup you use(d)?

I am looking for low power polys that produce good spin and keep some control. I like the dunlop black widow, blue gear, yonex poly tour spin. I have found that 16 gauge will give better consistent control but not as much spin as the 17 gauge, anything thinner than 17 and I lose to much control.

I also string any of these polys at a minimum of 65 lbs. Many here will say I am crazy for using that high of tension but I have no problem with it and anything less makes the control not last as long.

Right now I am using gamma powerplay 18 gauge kevlar at 58lbs. with yonex poly tour spin cross at 63lbs. This set up is tremendous but like you I want to get away from kevlar to prevent injuries.

If I find a great poly that does what I want I will let you know, but so far I have found some that do exactly what I want but only for the first day. Still searching and maybe I just need 3 rackets instead of 2 and string more often.

tlm 11-15-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvaudio (Post 7018728)
This is not a general rule. Federer does this, every 6 games I believe. Venus Williams has on many occasions played with a single racquet per match when winning. This was when she played full gut, and now when playing a poly hybrid.

There is already a thread on this topic actually. For a high swing speed, poly will return more energy into the ball in the form of spin than Kevlar. As I mentioned in that thread, Agassi who used Kevlar for many many years said something to the effect that they need to let everyone know about poly or get rid of it because it produces so much spin per stroke. Sampras, upon trying it in retirement, said that it was like cheating due to the shots he could hit. Jim Courier at first didn't like poly BECAUSE it produced too much spin and he couldn't hit flat enough.

Regardless, if you feel Kevlar produces more spin, then use Kevlar. The likely reason you are getting the impression of greater spin is because Kevlar lets you swing as hard as you want at the ball, more or less. Poly, on the other hand, has more power, but greater elasticity, so if you have a less spin-generating stroke, then your impression will be that Kevlar is better for spin. I'm not going to argue why an entire industry has shifted if you personally like the spin of Kevlar.

Okay but kinda funny the way you say fed changes often and then go to serena and a bunch of players from the 90's. Do you not watch modern tennis? Almost all the top male players change their rackets with every ball change.

Again agassi talking about poly has little to do with amateur players because we do not use a fresh string job every half hour. I like poly better than anything for the first hour or so, but it changes a lot after that. So ya if i had at new string job to use as often as I wanted to poly would be unbeatable.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse