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-   -   Can't call your 1st serve out? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=445969)

dlam 11-17-2012 08:57 AM

Can't call your 1st serve out?
 
This rule I'm not to fond of
If you are allow to call any of your own shots out including the 2nd serve than why do we have to play the point if it my 1st serve looks clearly long but my opponent still returns it?

sundaypunch 11-17-2012 09:11 AM

Because the point is conceded to your opponent on any shot of yours you call out other than the first serve. If they allowed the server to call his first serve out, you could have them argue "it was out" after the opponent hits a return for a winner.

floridatennisdude 11-17-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021303)
This rule I'm not to fond of
If you are allow to call any of your own shots out including the 2nd serve than why do we have to play the point if it my 1st serve looks clearly long but my opponent still returns it?

Have you not searched this on this forum? This one is pretty obvious.

You can't watch your opponents return winner and then claim your serve was out. Any other line call you can make against yourself as there is no advantage to doing so.

dlam 11-17-2012 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floridatennisdude (Post 7021346)
Have you not searched this on this forum? This one is pretty obvious.

You can't watch your opponents return winner and then claim your serve was out. Any other line call you can make against yourself as there is no advantage to doing so.

Yes so the returner can hit winners all day and call my "outs" in and when he misses, hits wide, or hits the net he calls the one that was in "out"
Makes sense to me

esgee48 11-17-2012 09:32 AM

The first or second time he or she does that, I would continue on but with a warning. After that, I would call it interruption of play and take a 1st serve or call an actual hindrance/take point. Of course, we're not talking about 100 MPH serves.

Avles 11-17-2012 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021370)
Yes so the returner can hit winners all day and call my "outs" in and when he misses, hits wide, or hits the net he calls the one that was in "out"
Makes sense to me

Your opponent can do this on any borderline shot, not just service returns. There's no rule that can prevent your opponent from cheating.

The principle at work here is that can you only overrule your opponent's call when that overrule will benefit your opponent. I think that principle makes sense.

dlam 11-17-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avles (Post 7021391)
Your opponent can do this on any borderline shot, not just service returns. There's no rule that can prevent your opponent from cheating.

The principle at work here is that can you only overrule your opponent's call when that overrule will benefit your opponent. I think that principle makes sense.

What kind of argument is that?

I hit a 1st serve that I perceive to be wide but he says it good
I know it's out but I can't over rule him and and end up taking the point
Clearly this over rule would have benefited the opponent

Magnetite 11-17-2012 09:59 AM

It's just one of those things. There are many players that play without calling the score, and who barely make a gesture or say anything when a shot is out.

I remember during one match where I hit a serve blatantly long, my opponent hit the ball casually, and didn't move, I got ready to serve again, and the guy says, "your serve was in."

He barely called anything, so it was pretty ridiculous. You just have to play every ball and beat these idiots into a bloody pulp. Coincidentally, these are the same people who don't signal when driving, and txt while in rush hour traffic.

dlam 11-17-2012 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnetite (Post 7021433)
It's just one of those things. There are many players that play without calling the score, and who barely make a gesture or say anything when a shot is out.

I remember during one match where I hit a serve blatantly long, my opponent hit the ball casually, and didn't move, I got ready to serve again, and the guy says, "your serve was in."

He barely called anything, so it was pretty ridiculous. You just have to play every ball and beat these idiots into a bloody pulp. Coincidentally, these are the same people who don't signal when driving, and txt while in rush hour traffic.

Good point
Whenever I play against someone like that I alway questioning their judgement on all calls
In this situation an over rule should have the honorable thing to do but rules prohibit it

dlam 11-17-2012 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esgee48 (Post 7021381)
The first or second time he or she does that, I would continue on but with a warning. After that, I would call it interruption of play and take a 1st serve or call an actual hindrance/take point. Of course, we're not talking about 100 MPH serves.

???
How do you have authority to do this?

OrangePower 11-17-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021413)
What kind of argument is that?

I hit a 1st serve that I perceive to be wide but he says it good
I know it's out but I can't over rule him and and end up taking the point
Clearly this over rule would have benefited the opponent

If you see your serve out, and your opponent does not get a return back, you can say to your opponent "hey, I thought the serve was out". Your opponent will then likely say either "no, your point, I'm pretty sure it was in", or else "thanks, I wasn't sure but didn't want to call it out, second serve." Either way, the final call is theirs.

On the other hand if they make a good return, you have to play the point. You can't stop play and claim your serve was out.

dlam 11-17-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021303)
This rule I'm not to fond of
If you are allow to call any of your own shots out including the 2nd serve than why do we have to play the point if it my 1st serve looks clearly long but my opponent still returns it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangePower (Post 7021465)
If you see your serve out, and your opponent does not get a return back, you can say to your opponent "hey, I thought the serve was out". Your opponent will then likely say either "no, your point, I'm pretty sure it was in", or else "thanks, I wasn't sure but didn't want to call it out, second serve." Either way, the final call is theirs.

On the other hand if they make a good return, you have to play the point. You can't stop play and claim your serve was out.

Thanks that helps
I'm forced to play the point
Whatever the outcome of that point
Afterwards can i still say I thought my 1st serve is out ? Yes ?
Up to the opponent to decide to let that point stand , whether I won or he/she won the point or replay the point and do the 2nd serve
Is this legit ?

Avles 11-17-2012 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021487)
Thanks that helps
I'm forced to play the point
Whatever the outcome of that point
Afterwards can i still say I thought my 1st serve is out ? Yes ?
Up to the opponent to decide to let that point stand , whether I won or he/she won the point or replay the point and do the 2nd serve
Is this legit ?


That's not quite right. The rule is that you should call your first serve out only if your opponent fails to get a return in play.

If your opponent gets the return in play, his non-call stands and the point proceeds. There's no such thing as playing an extended point and then mooting it at the end because you think your serve was out.

dlam 11-17-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avles (Post 7021531)
That's not quite right. The rule is that you should call your first serve out only if your opponent fails to get a return in play.

If your opponent gets the return in play, his non-call stands and the point proceeds. There's no such thing as playing an extended point and then mooting it at the end because you think your serve was out.

No I think you might wrong
We can't call our first serves out no matter what
We can only suggest by what we think we saw , the final decision is up the opponent

Avles 11-17-2012 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021566)
No I think you might wrong
We can't call our first serves out no matter what
We can only suggest by what we think we saw , the final decision is up the opponent

Here is what the Code says:

Neither the server nor server’s partner shall make a fault call on the first service even if they think it is out because the receiver may be giving the server the benefit of the doubt. There is one exception. If the receiver plays a first service that is a fault and does not put the return in play, the server or server’s partner may make the fault call.

So again, the the rule is this:

1. If your opponent fails to return your first serve, you may call it out, just like you may call out your second serve, or any other shot you hit. The rules for calling first serves in this case are no different than for any other shot.

2. If your opponent successfully returns your first serve, you have no call. Your opponent's non-call always stands.

TomT 11-17-2012 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021303)
This rule I'm not to fond of
If you are allow to call any of your own shots out including the 2nd serve than why do we have to play the point if it my 1st serve looks clearly long but my opponent still returns it?

As far as I know, the rule is that shots landing on your side are your call and shots landing on your opponent's side are their call. Period.

dlam 11-17-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avles (Post 7021602)
Here is what the Code says:

Neither the server nor serverís partner shall make a fault call on the first service even if they think it is out because the receiver may be giving the server the benefit of the doubt. There is one exception. If the receiver plays a first service that is a fault and does not put the return in play, the server or serverís partner may make the fault call.

So again, the the rule is this:

1. If your opponent fails to return your first serve, you may call it out, just like you may call out your second serve, or any other shot you hit. The rules for calling first serves in this case are no different than for any other shot.

2. If your opponent successfully returns your first serve, you have no call. Your opponent's non-call always stands.


From the code 2011 ed

13. Player calls own shots out. With the exception of the first serve, a player should call out the player's own shots if the player clearly sees the ball out regardless of whether requested to do so by an opponent. The prime objective in making calls is accuracy. All players should cooperate to attain this objective.

and

25. Service calls by serving team. Neither the server nor serverís partner shall make a fault call on the first service even if they think it is out because the receiver may be giving the server the benefit of the doubt. There is one exception. If the receiver plays a first service that is a fault and does not put the return in play, the server or serverís partner may make the fault call. The server and the serverís partner shall call out any second serve that either clearly sees out.


From what I'm reading #25 refers to doubles play not singles.
Any one?

Avles 11-17-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021667)
From the code 2011 ed
From what I'm reading #25 refers to doubles play not singles.
Any one?

I'm assuming it refers to both singles and doubles, as I can't imagine why the rule would differ between singles and doubles.

dlam 11-17-2012 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avles (Post 7021683)
I'm assuming it refers to both singles and doubles, as I can't imagine why the rule would differ between singles and doubles.

well, just play to what your interpretations of the rules of, if there is no referee

floridatennisdude 11-17-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlam (Post 7021370)
Yes so the returner can hit winners all day and call my "outs" in and when he misses, hits wide, or hits the net he calls the one that was in "out"
Makes sense to me

Sure, a d-bag will be a d-bag.

Doesn't mean you stop play when no call is made. You snooze, you lose.


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