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-   -   Is Djokovic an all-time great? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=446528)

5555 11-25-2012 06:11 AM

Is Djokovic an all-time great?
 
"Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic, Roddick's chief rivals, may very well be the greatest three players to ever play tennis"
Andre Agassi
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/men-...ourt-champions

"At the moment Andy is probably playing against three of the top eight players in the history of the game".
Tim Henman
http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/wimb...s-7876173.html

"1. Federer
2. Borg
3. Sampras
4. McEnroe
5. Nadal
6. Djokovic
7. Agassi
8. Connors
9. Lendl
10. Edberg
"
Rod Laver's TOP 10 at Open Era
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/archives...654969?page=12

"Novak has been phenomenal, winning the Australian Open, Wimbledon and the US Open and getting to the semis at Roland Garros. That puts him right up there alongside the best who have ever played."
Pat Cash
http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/879710-...-says-pat-cash

"This guy surely now has a genuine claim to be labelled as one of the all-time greats."
Jonathan Overend
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/16781690


"It's obviously great any time you beat the world No. 1. I just tried to do some of the same things I did in Australia. I was very close there against one of the greatest players ever.."
Andy Murray
http://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/139046.html#

Achilles82 11-25-2012 06:28 AM

Novak needs a lot more slams to be even considered as all time great.

But I don't think competition for No1 was ever this difficult. We literally have four No1 players at the moment.

Andy Murray who was never No1, in my opinion is better player, and if he retired today, I would considered him greater player then Safin, Hewitt, Rafter, Moya, Rios, Muster, Kafelnikov, Ferrero and some more, and all of those players have been No1

Steve0904 11-25-2012 06:39 AM

How do you define "all-time great?" All those quotes you give seem to be people that are using extreme hyperbole to pump him up, and as such are not giving a completely honest opinion. This is one of those threads that could turn into "but Rod Laver et al said it so it must be true." It's at this point that I'd stop taking former players opinions like the bible like a lot of people around here seem to do. There are levels to this sort of thing IMO. The top level consists of guys like Laver, Nadal, Borg, Sampras and Federer. I would put Djokovic a level (or two) below them for now obviously. So if you only consider the highest of the high all time greats then no Djokovic is not an all time great. This is my opinion as well. He's obviously an accomplished player, but 5 slams (and no career slam) as yet leads me to say no.

El Nino 11-25-2012 06:48 AM

@Achilles82
Agree that Murray is better than all the guys you mentioned except Hewitt. 2xYear End Number 1, 2xGrand Slams and Masters Cup winner is pretty impressive (may have not been the strongest Era ever but all slams count) . I would say Andy and Lleyton are pretty even so far. Although Murrays likely to have the better Carrer by time he retires.

helloworld 11-25-2012 06:49 AM

Probably a 3rd tier all-time great, just below Edberg and Becker.

kOaMaster 11-25-2012 06:53 AM

top ten - of course, everything else would be wrong I think.

helloworld 11-25-2012 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kOaMaster (Post 7031771)
top ten - of course, everything else would be wrong I think.

Top 10 based on what? His 5 slams? I doubt it. His career is not over, but now he's definitely not top 10 all-time yet.

5555 11-25-2012 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloworld (Post 7031774)
he's definitely not top 10 all-time yet.

Is it fact?

5555 11-25-2012 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve0904 (Post 7031761)
All those quotes you give seem to be people that are using extreme hyperbole to pump him up, and as such are not giving a completely honest opinion.

Do you claim that they said what they do not believe? If the answer is "Yes" can you provide proof that they said what they do not believe?

kOaMaster 11-25-2012 07:10 AM

on counting the open era only

otherwise things always get complicated because I just can't compare those players from >50years ago.

Hood_Man 11-25-2012 07:13 AM

Depends how long the list is I guess, but anyone who reaches 9 Major finals and wins 5 of them has to be something very special.

Apun94 11-25-2012 07:16 AM

Results wise, yes Nole is not one of the all time great, bt thats only becuz his career path is not finished yet. He is considered one of the all time greats simply becz of the level he has been able to play at consistently over the past two years. If he plays his best this man does not have a real weakness. And he has shown that he can play his best consistently. We all know the he is a better version of agassi. Anyone who can thrash prime nadal and does get the better of murray and fed on most occasions is definitely one of the best of all time. No one from the previous eras has come even close to this guy

Clarky21 11-25-2012 07:17 AM

I think he is. I also think he will be a tier one great right up there with Fed by the time his career is over.

Clarky21 11-25-2012 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apun94 (Post 7031798)
Results wise, yes Nole is not one of the all time great, bt thats only becuz his career path is not finished yet. He is considered one of the all time greats simply becz of the level he has been able to play at consistently over the past two years. If he plays his best this man does not have a real weakness. And he has shown that he can play his best consistently. We all know the he is a better version of agassi. Anyone who can thrash prime nadal and does get the better of murray and fed on most occasions is definitely one of the best of all time. No one from the previous eras has come even close to this guy


Total nonsense,but I won't waste my time going into why.

Steve0904 11-25-2012 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5555 (Post 7031788)
Do you claim that they said what they do not believe? If the answer is "Yes" can you provide proof that they said what they do not believe?

I'm saying that it is my opinion that they are using extreme hyperbole to pump him up without actually looking at the facts, and therefore it is my opinion that they are not giving an honest opinion. As I said, it depends on what facts you use to determine what an all time great is. If you use peak levels of play only then it is my opinion that he is up there with the best to have ever played the game, but this is much too narrow a view IMO, therefore IMO he is not an all time great yet.

Using your opinion from another thread, the 4 slams are the most important, and nothing else is considered "big" therefore IMO Djokovic is not an all time great. Meanwhile, it is a fact that Djokovic is not on the same all time level as the 4 guys I mentioned earlier if we consider the most important aspect (in your opinion) which is slams, because 6 slams just to match Laver, Borg, and Nadal among other things is too big of a gap IMHO.

The fact that you even had to make a thread asking this question should lead you to believe that some people will respond in the negative.

helloworld 11-25-2012 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apun94 (Post 7031798)
Results wise, yes Nole is not one of the all time great, bt thats only becuz his career path is not finished yet. He is considered one of the all time greats simply becz of the level he has been able to play at consistently over the past two years. If he plays his best this man does not have a real weakness. And he has shown that he can play his best consistently. We all know the he is a better version of agassi. Anyone who can thrash prime nadal and does get the better of murray and fed on most occasions is definitely one of the best of all time. No one from the previous eras has come even close to this guy.

Wow, these three sentences are all absurd! How can someone possibly write 3 stupid sentences in a row I will never understand. :confused:

merlinpinpin 11-25-2012 08:11 AM

"Is Djokovic an all-time great?"

No.

His career is not over, though, so we'll see when he's done. But should he stop today, he's not even top 20 all-time, maybe not even top 30 (to 5555troll--yes, this is *fact*), and tennis definitely doesn't need 50+ all-time greats, so this is just hyping him up. Business as usual.

Apun94 11-25-2012 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarky21 (Post 7031802)
Total nonsense,but I won't waste my time going into why.

Please do explain why...

Apun94 11-25-2012 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloworld (Post 7031813)
Wow, these three sentences are all absurd! How can someone possibly write 3 stupid sentences in a row I will never understand. :confused:

How are these absurd?? Djokovic is a better version of Agassi, no? How can you say otherwise?
Hasnt Nadal been beaten 7 straight times in the last 2 years? Hasnt Nole beaten Murray and Fed several times over the last 2 years?

tennis_pro 11-25-2012 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlinpinpin (Post 7031854)
"Is Djokovic an all-time great?"

No.

His career is not over, though, so we'll see when he's done. But should he stop today, he's not even top 20 all-time, maybe not even top 30 (to 5555troll--yes, this is *fact*), and tennis definitely doesn't need 50+ all-time greats, so this is just hyping him up. Business as usual.

Not even top 30? You sure?

So you have Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, Becker, Edberg, Wilander, Lendl, Borg, McEnroe, Connors (11 players - anyone missing?) - the only players who managed to win at least 5 majors since the official ATP rankings. Before that you had Laver, Emerson, Rosewall, Gonzales, Newcombe, Hoad.

That's a total of 17 players before considering the 40's or 50's. Could you name all the all-time-great players you would rank higher than Djokovic?


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