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JackB1 11-26-2012 06:10 PM

Swingweight Question
 
I know this is trivial, but can anyone Answer this question for me?

Which will increase swingweight more, 2 g at 12 o'clock or 4 g at 3 and 9 o'clock? Thanks.

CCH4TENNIS 11-26-2012 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7034109)
I know this is trivial, but can anyone Answer this question for me?

Which will increase swingweight more, 2 g at 12 o'clock or 4 g at 3 and 9 o'clock? Thanks.

Hi Jack

You can check for yourself using this tool
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...ionReverse.php

Use L=26.75 (12 O'clock), increase in swing wt=6.3
Use L=20.1 (9 N 3 O'clock), increase in swing wt=6.8

HTH

JackB1 11-26-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCH4TENNIS (Post 7034133)
Hi Jack

You can check for yourself using this tool
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...ionReverse.php

Use L=26.75 (12 O'clock), increase in swing wt=6.3
Use L=20.1 (9 N 3 O'clock), increase in swing wt=6.8

HTH

so they are pretty much equal then. thanks!

CCH4TENNIS 11-26-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7034149)
so they are pretty much equal then. thanks!

Hi Jack

BTW, adding wt at 9N3 also have an advantage of increasing twist weight which is great for torsional stability ie great for volleys and handling heavy balls :-)

richsox 11-27-2012 06:40 AM

Could anyone please comment as to what effect that placing up to 4 grams in the "throat" area would have?

I am trying to get more plow through on my PD 2012. I've messed around with so many attempts at leading in different spots, that I've been frustrated and returned to stock. I just find all the variations confusing, and it does mess with my head when I'm playing.

I'm thinking adding lead to the throat would seem to keep the balance point the same-ish, yet provide the plow through. i did try this to some extent, and felt some success but only with 2 grams, and then I figured that teh 2 grams made little more difference than psychological.

Thanks!

Power Player 11-27-2012 06:57 AM

If it helps, I find the pure drives to react best to lead at 3 and 9. I used 6 inch strips for 24 inches total (6 grams). This altered the balance and made it more even, but I do use an overgrip so that helps bring it back a hair.

richsox 11-27-2012 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7034582)
If it helps, I find the pure drives to react best to lead at 3 and 9. I used 6 inch strips for 24 inches total (6 grams). This altered the balance and made it more even, but I do use an overgrip so that helps bring it back a hair.

Thanks for chiming in PP. I do have a spare leather (Bab) grip which I'll apply, and may try your set up.....

TimothyO 11-27-2012 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7034149)
so they are pretty much equal then. thanks!

The SW is the same but the results are different.

2g at 12 provides the same SW at a lower cost in static weight. SW is crucial but static weight also matters.

4g at 3/9 provides the same SW and greater stability but at the cost of higher static weight.

Given two frames with the same SW but different static weights you'll still generally find the lighter frame easier to maneuver. Even then how the mass is distributed can make one frame feel stable and smooth and the other unwieldy or clumsy regardless of weight and SW.

I've found the best way to customize is to take your frame to the court with some lead tape and an exacto knife and hit with a patient friend. Try different configurations in a systematic manner: 12, 10/2, 9/3. Shift placement and amount based on feel. With a little trial and error you'll find something that works for all strokes: serve, ground strokes, and volleys. Focus on placement in the head and worry about adding some lead (if any) under the handle in a later session.

Once you have something that feels right you can use that frame as a reference point to match your other frames.

The worst thing you can do is start purely from the math and/or hit only against a wall to test the setup (I know because I've made that mistake!) :)

I now know a broad sweet spot for myself: I like something around 11.8 to 12.2 ounces, SW around 330+, and with as much stability (high twistweight) as possible. Based on past experience I'll mod a new frame to something along those lines after first hitting with it in stock form. Final static weight, SW, TW, and balance will be driven by the unique character of the frame and how it feels. I won't know the final numbers until AFTER hitting with the modded frame a few times under different conditions (eg vs heavy hitters and those who provide no pace so I must generate my own entirely) and then the numbers are used only as a reference to match frames.

I know I'm done modding a frame when it disappears from my mind while hitting and there's just the shot I want to make and the ball. If the frame distracts me and feels too heavy, clumsy, unstable, or wimpy then it's still not right.

JackB1 11-27-2012 09:00 AM

^^^ thanks Tim....very thoughtful response once again.

I am trying to mod my Juice 100. It's already at a nice static weigh in stock form (330 grams) but it's too headlite and flimsy feeling in stock form. I usually prefer my racquets 3-4 pts headlite. I dont want to add too much lead because I don't want to increase static weight too much, which is why I started with (2) 4" strips at 12' (added 2 grams total). It is a little noticeable now with the weight at the tip, so I may just try cutting each strip in half and sliding it down towards 11 and 1 oclock. I haven't tried any tape yet at 3/9.

JackB1 11-27-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richsox (Post 7034554)
Could anyone please comment as to what effect that placing up to 4 grams in the "throat" area would have?

I am trying to get more plow through on my PD 2012. I've messed around with so many attempts at leading in different spots, that I've been frustrated and returned to stock. I just find all the variations confusing, and it does mess with my head when I'm playing.

I'm thinking adding lead to the throat would seem to keep the balance point the same-ish, yet provide the plow through. i did try this to some extent, and felt some success but only with 2 grams, and then I figured that teh 2 grams made little more difference than psychological.

Thanks!

4 grams at the throat will mostly just make the racquet feel heavier, since it's so close to the balance point. If you want to feel more plow through, I would suggest adding weight in the head....either at 12, 3/9 or 10/2. When I had the PD12, I liked it with (2) 4" strips at 12'. You just have to experiment, like Tim says, but in general terms, you will gain plowthru more by adding weight in the hoop...not the handle.

richsox 11-27-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7034757)
4 grams at the throat will mostly just make the racquet feel heavier, since it's so close to the balance point. If you want to feel more plow through, I would suggest adding weight in the head....either at 12, 3/9 or 10/2. When I had the PD12, I liked it with (2) 4" strips at 12'. You just have to experiment, like Tim says, but in general terms, you will gain plowthru more by adding weight in the hoop...not the handle.

Thanks Jack! - just played my 2nd day in row demo-ing the PDR and I absolutely prefer the std, and just now have to tweak it so I achieve a middle ground weight wise, and sw wise between the PDR and the std PD, that's my goal.....now time for buying lots of lead to experiment.......something tells me this is goin be a nightmare! If I could only get the PD 2012 to play like my beloved PD team, that would be the ideal! But guess I can't change the RA!

Power Player 11-27-2012 10:31 AM

I thought the PD Team was 70RA? Maybe not, the specs I saw said 70 with a sw of 335 and it is an extended stick. I may be looking at the wrong stick.

Post the specs that you want, and I can try and help save you some time with the lead.

richsox 11-27-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7034884)
I thought the PD Team was 70RA? Maybe not, the specs I saw said 70 with a sw of 335 and it is an extended stick. I may be looking at the wrong stick.

Post the specs that you want, and I can try and help save you some time with the lead.

PP-Thank you for the kind offer--that would be simply wonderful! I simply don't have the "know how" to figure these things out.....

These are the spec's below as listed by TW for the PD Team (2003), although please note that Babolat had the RA as 69 on the card/label on that racket, and indeed when playing with the PD team, I just notice that little bit of flex, which the PD 2012 just does not have, and it seems to have more "oomph" about it, than the 2012 PD

Technical Specifications 2003 PD Team
Length 27 inches
Head Size 100 square inches
Weight 11.2 ounces 318 grams
Balance Point 12.875 inches
33 centimeters 5pts Head Light
Construction 22-25 mm
Composition Graphite/Kevlar
String Pattern 16 Mains / 19 Crosses
Flex Rating 70
Swing Weight 322

Power Player 11-27-2012 12:35 PM

ok this should be easy if you can accept that the PD standard will be a hair heavier. ( not too bad though). You also must get a digital scale if you dont have one.

I would add 2 grams of lead at 12. This should take the Swing weight ( the "oomph" you are missing)up from around 315 to 321. Play with it for a week and add another 1-2 grams if needed.

Counterbalance with an overgrip and 2 grams on the handle. I would suggest plumbers putty stuck to the inside of the buttcap.

The strung racquet from stock at around 318 will now weigh 326. The team with an overgrip is going to be 321. So you are adding 4-5 grams.

Thats it!

richsox 11-27-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power Player (Post 7035046)
ok this should be easy if you can accept that the PD standard will be a hair heavier. ( not too bad though). You also must get a digital scale if you dont have one.

I would add 2 grams of lead at 12. This should take the Swing weight ( the "oomph" you are missing)up from around 315 to 321. Play with it for a week and add another 1-2 grams if needed.

Counterbalance with an overgrip and 2 grams on the handle. I would suggest plumbers putty stuck to the inside of the buttcap.

The strung racquet from stock at around 318 will now weigh 326. The team with an overgrip is going to be 321. So you are adding 4-5 grams.

Thats it!

OK--Excellent!! Thank you PP--I appreciate it!

I'm not one for opening butt caps, so I'll add some lead under my grip--on the bare handle--toward the bottom. I may even try the bab leather grip, that I have a spare of, which in itself weighs more anyway than the Syntec grip (and I'll add a VS original overgrip over the leather), so I'm thinking by adding the heavier leather grip will possibly negate any need to add lead on the handle...to counter balance the lead at 12.....I think :-?


Many thanks again PP!! Have a virtual beer on me :)

Power Player 11-27-2012 01:11 PM

Be careful, the bab leather grip is going to add more weight than you want.

To pop the buttcap on a bab is SUPER easy. Just grab an awl or small screwdriver and press it into the little hole in the buttcap. Then you just push forward so it leverages the cap out. It is meant to be popped out, so dont sweat it. To put it back in, you literally just press it in with your fingers.

Easiest thing ever, I promise. Will spec out better than leather.


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