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-   -   USTA League "bottom up" default rule question (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=446732)

AR15 11-27-2012 02:48 PM

USTA League "bottom up" default rule question
 
In the upcoming match, the opponent's team captain called and said he is going to be two players short. Am I correct that he has the option of defaulting both singles courts or the court 3 doubles court?

dizzlmcwizzl 11-27-2012 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR15 (Post 7035151)
In the upcoming match, the opponent's team captain called and said he is going to be two players short. Am I correct that he has the option of defaulting both singles courts or the court 3 doubles court?

That is the way it is here ... Always bottom up and forfeiting captain can chose singles or doubles.

Usually when this occurs on match night the captains will almost always chose to default the 3rd dubs so that they only lose 1 line by forfeit.

Angle Queen 11-27-2012 03:06 PM

That's the way it works around here too. Gotta be from the bottom up, but could be either doubles or singles so...either #3 dubs...or both #1 & #2 singles.

I've been on a team that received a #1/#2 default. And, even though we also ran the table with all three doubles, that lineup decision was not well-received around the league. As always, there was more than met the eye...as to why things transpired the way they did...but still, it wasn't an easy pill for some to swallow.

AR15 11-27-2012 03:11 PM

neither team has a chance of advancing, so which team wins or loses the match has no consequence.

Cindysphinx 11-27-2012 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angle Queen (Post 7035179)
That's the way it works around here too. Gotta be from the bottom up, but could be either doubles or singles so...either #3 dubs...or both #1 & #2 singles.

I've been on a team that received a #1/#2 default. And, even though we also ran the table with all three doubles, that lineup decision was not well-received around the league. As always, there was more than met the eye...as to why things transpired the way they did...but still, it wasn't an easy pill for some to swallow.

I don't understand.

Who cares what they default, so long as they tell you in advance?

Now, if they say in advance, "We are two players short but we aren't going to tell which lines we are defaulting", I would ask "So why are you calling me? I have to bring all 8 players anyway?"

Angle Queen 11-27-2012 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 7035294)
I don't understand.

Who cares what they default, so long as they tell you in advance?

Now, if they say in advance, "We are two players short but we aren't going to tell which lines we are defaulting", I would ask "So why are you calling me? I have to bring all 8 players anyway?"

Playoffs were at stake. It was the last match of the season. We needed to take all five lines and win "big" to finish in the running. So while defaults don't count for/against an individual as far as NTRP goes, they did when it came to flight winner tiebreaks -- it's team wins, individual wins, set lost, games lost. It mattered.

But I know our captain did not influence the opposing captain's decision, despite what some might have thought. It was a brutally hot day (near 95F) with a 1pm start time. The other team did not want to field singles and thought they had a chance, with the players they had available, to win in doubles.

We knew what "the math" was to finish first...but I doubt they did; it was quite complicated and depended on what another team did earlier that day. Regardless, it was a much discussed match.

Alchemy-Z 11-28-2012 04:39 AM

We had a match this year that

Line one Singles played

They defaulted Line 2 singles

We defaulted line 1 doubles

Line 2 doubles was played

They defaulted line 3 doubles

so I won the team match by simply winning #1 singles.

I don't think any team has played a full line up this season since the 40+ guys left us at 18+

AR15 11-28-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy-Z (Post 7035912)
We had a match this year that

Line one Singles played

They defaulted Line 2 singles

We defaulted line 1 doubles

Line 2 doubles was played

They defaulted line 3 doubles

so I won the team match by simply winning #1 singles.

I don't think any team has played a full line up this season since the 40+ guys left us at 18+

USTA rules state you must default from the bottom up. The only way you can default court 1 doubles, by the rules, is if court 3 and court 2 have already defaulted.

Donald 11-28-2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR15 (Post 7036835)
USTA rules state you must default from the bottom up. The only way you can default court 1 doubles, by the rules, is if court 3 and court 2 have already defaulted.

Right - so the correct way in this case would have been that both teams deafault #2 and #3 doubles. They play #1 doubles; the second team also defaults #2 singles, and then the final team score to be put into the computer would be a 2:1, instead of a 3:2 win for the first team (I presume from the original post that the second team won the only doubles match that was played). It's still a win, but it could possibly be a factor in a tie-break if either team was contending for playoffs.

Cindysphinx 11-28-2012 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR15 (Post 7036835)
USTA rules state you must default from the bottom up. The only way you can default court 1 doubles, by the rules, is if court 3 and court 2 have already defaulted.

Mostly correct.

Our rules say it is the responsibility of the non-defaulting captain to ensure that the bottom-up rule is followed. If players on lower courts start their matches before the default period, there is no move-up. Same result if non-defaulting captain chooses not to enforce the rule for whatever reason.

You'll often see a Tennislink entry with a default on Court One. That's usually somebody who got stuck in traffic and no one bothered to move the lower players up.

Alchemy-Z 11-29-2012 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindysphinx (Post 7037033)
Mostly correct.

Our rules say it is the responsibility of the non-defaulting captain to ensure that the bottom-up rule is followed. If players on lower courts start their matches before the default period, there is no move-up. Same result if non-defaulting captain chooses not to enforce the rule for whatever reason.

You'll often see a Tennislink entry with a default on Court One. That's usually somebody who got stuck in traffic and no one bothered to move the lower players up.

Yep what happened to us

Line one Singles played

They defaulted Line 2 singles - they had a no show

We defaulted line 1 doubles -We had a guy go to the wrong location so matches had started before he over ran the 15min mark and defaulted the match.

Line 2 doubles was played

They defaulted line 3 doubles- They had already planned to default # 3


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