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-   -   Help on String pattern's effect on feel of the strings (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=446820)

allcourtplayer 11-28-2012 02:41 PM

Help on String pattern's effect on feel of the strings
 
Hi guys I need some help.
I had a 95 square inch frame. 18x20 string pattern. Strung up with a hybrid set up
Gut in the mains with a soft poly in the crosses. Strung at 60/58
Yes It was the good natural gut from before the bht7.
That had been my usual set up. Hit like a dream, felt like velvet.
Then I got a new raquet. The Wilson blx pro staff 95. Same 95 square inch head side. But 16x19 string pattern I strung it up with the guy/ poly as usual. ( the new gut).same tension
It Feels like a board.
Yes,I have read about the old , new gut and I understand that could make it feel stiffer. So I will switch to Wilson guy next string job
But my question is what effect does going from 18x20 to 16x19 have on the feel of the strings if you keep the same tensions?
Should I be lowering the tension in the 16x19 to get it to feel softer like my other racquet feels ?
How do I adjust the tension so it feels the same as the 18x20.
The only difference is the string pattern.
Any help is appreciated
Thanks

mikeler 11-28-2012 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allcourtplayer (Post 7036851)
Hi guys I need some help.
I had a 95 square inch frame. 18x20 string pattern. Strung up with a hybrid set up
Gut in the mains with a soft poly in the crosses. Strung at 60/58
Yes It was the good natural gut from before the bht7.
That had been my usual set up. Hit like a dream, felt like velvet.
Then I got a new raquet. The Wilson blx pro staff 95. Same 95 square inch head side. But 16x19 string pattern I strung it up with the guy/ poly as usual. ( the new gut).same tension
It Feels like a board.
Yes,I have read about the old , new gut and I understand that could make it feel stiffer. So I will switch to Wilson guy next string job
But my question is what effect does going from 18x20 to 16x19 have on the feel of the strings if you keep the same tensions?
Should I be lowering the tension in the 16x19 to get it to feel softer like my other racquet feels ?
How do I adjust the tension so it feels the same as the 18x20.
The only difference is the string pattern.
Any help is appreciated
Thanks


Just because the head size and/or string pattern are the same does not mean two rackets will play exactly alike. One could play like butter and the other like iron depending on the racket stiffness. You need an apples to apples comparison. 18x20 patterns always feel more like a board to me while 16x19 has a little more spring to it.

allcourtplayer 11-28-2012 03:34 PM

Thanks for your reply. But I'm not sure what more apples to apples you want
Same head size. Same strings. Same tension. That's about as apples to apples as I can get. Unless I just got the same exact racquet. Which then I would ht be posting this.

I'm not trying to get it to " play exactly like the other racquet. ". It plays fine.
I'm trying to get the strings to feel at least somewhat similar.
Going to such an open string pattern means having less distance of total string.
I'm thinking that the shorter distance at the same tension could possibly be causing it to feel so different.
I would think I'd have to adjust the tension for the difference in the length of string?

cluckcluck 11-28-2012 03:46 PM

16x19 will play completely different than 18x20, no matter the string setup.
You can try to get close, but finding an identical feel will not happen.
Let's not forget that different racquet brands will play different too. Wilson, Babolat, Head, Volkl, Donnay, Dunlop, etc all play differently, even the ones with identical specs.

lawrencejin 11-28-2012 03:47 PM

I think your solution is on the right track, but for the wrong reasons. Like Mikeler, I don't think the string pattern is the cause of your string bed feeling boardy. There are many other uncontrolled variables, e.g. racket stiffness, head shape (not all 95's are of the same shape), stringing errors, and so forth.

In short, you have a few options:
1. Lower tension, as you mentioned. Many folks here string gut/poly in low- to mid-50's.
2. Go higher in gauge (thinner strings).

Good luck!

allcourtplayer 11-28-2012 03:49 PM

They are both Wilson racquets.

cluckcluck 11-28-2012 03:52 PM

You're going to have to go with thinner gauges, 17L or 18.

allcourtplayer 11-28-2012 03:55 PM

Older racquet stiffness was 59
The Wilson pro staff says 62.
Same stringer same stringing machine for the past two years.
I'll try this suggestions and see what happens plus switching the gut to Wilson.

allcourtplayer 11-28-2012 03:56 PM

I can go with different gauges. That's not a problem.
I was using 16 gauge in the gut and poly.

Muppet 11-28-2012 04:20 PM

Don't go lower on the Wilson gut. It's the new Babolat gut that gave you most of the problem. They made it stiffer and lower powered to be used in hybrids in the low 50s. From what I've read, Wilson gut is pretty similar to the old VS. Because you have a more open pattern now, you may want to go up on the tension by 2 lbs., or keep it the same as your old VS.

allcourtplayer 11-29-2012 05:57 AM

muppet,
i had read about the new VS gut being stiffer. i didnt realize it was that much stiffer.
is the wilson that much softer like the old VS?
I noticed as soon as i hit with it that the string( the new gut) didnt feel the same and i just figured it was because of the string pattern.

i cant wait to give the wilson gut a shot.

Muppet 11-29-2012 11:02 AM

I can only tell you about my experience with Tonic 16, and coinciding posts that I've read on TT. My prior experience was with Klip Legend 16 in hybrids. The Klip is supposed to be firmer feeling than other guts (non-BT7), so I was looking forward to using Tonic at 58 (drop weight) in my 95" 12.9 oz. 8.5 HL racquet. I didn't understand the difference in BT7 at the time, so I just went +3 lbs. from my multi tension. That would have been fine with Wilson gut, but it turned out to be very board like and low powered for the BT7 Babolat.

The news on Wilson and Prince guts is that they are made by Babolat and are similar to Babolat's old gut. The gut that Babolat markets under its own name is the BT7 stuff. One poster reported that he is very happy with BT7 for use in hybrids. Maybe some other people with more experience with these gut strings will post up some more information for you.

vic9 11-29-2012 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allcourtplayer (Post 7036968)
Older racquet stiffness was 59
The Wilson pro staff says 62.
Same stringer same stringing machine for the past two years.
I'll try this suggestions and see what happens plus switching the gut to Wilson.

Doesn't sound like apples to apples if both the string pattern and the stiffness are different What's the exact model of your old racquet? I didn't know Wilson had something with those specs.

NLBwell 11-29-2012 10:32 PM

For the same strings my rule of thumb would be to raise the tension 10% between an 18x20 pattern and a 16x19 pattern to get the same feel. It seems like your case doesn't fit with this rule.
Probably some of the difference is due to the strings and some is due to the racket. Could also be some quality control in the stringing.
In all, I'd be wary of both going back to the old strings and at the same time lowering string tension.

Matchball 11-29-2012 11:17 PM

I assume stringer and stringing machine/method are the same right?

1. Try to put strings of thicker gauge on the less dense pattern and take it from there.

It is difficult to replicate the feeling for sure, but I guess this is the objective.

2. Once you are convinced (if you are convinced) that the thicker gauge works (do not jump to the conclusion that it will definitely make the racquet feel even more boardy - in fact, as other have mentioned, this might be caused by many parameters), experiment with slight differences in tension (close to your previous benchmark tension), but do increase the mains/crosses margin (say 3 pounds instead of 2 for starters).
This will help you sweeten/open the stringbed, increase pocketing and dwell time.

3. If you like the effect of this on the new racquet, you might want to walk that extra mile and experiment with an even softer co-poly for crosses, or with a spin friendly synthetic gut, before you do sth. extreme (and wrong) with the mains/crosses margin; 5 to 6 pounds is the maximum allowed difference, but it would be wise to factor in tension loss for different strings IMO and it gets complicated. I would never go further than 4 pounds.

3. Also I would really like to know what the previous (the 18x20) stick was and if how old it is.

* There are ways to make a new frame feel older (softer).
Nadal asks for that on his Aeropros sometimes. It is a procedure that involves a certain stringing process.

anubis 11-30-2012 10:31 AM

I use the same racquets for this very reason. I don't want to pick up a different racquet from my bag and have to adjust my game because its drastically different from my last one. I want to be able to pick up any racquet from my bag and play exactly the same way.

I say pick a racquet and stick with it. If you liked 18x20, stick with 18x20.

allcourtplayer 12-01-2012 02:10 PM

my old racquet is the wilson k factor 6.1 team :

Midplus Specs
Head Size:
95 sq. in. / 613 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 10.9oz / 309g
Balance: Even Balance
Swingweight: 325
Stiffness: 59
Beam Width: 21 mm Straight Beam
Composition: nCoded High Modulus Graphite / Carbon Black
Power Level: Low-Medium
Swing Speed: Moderate-Fast
Grip Type: Wilson TrueGrip
String Pattern:
18 Mains / 20 Crosses
Mains skip: 8T,10T,8H,10H
One Piece
No shared holes
String Tension: 50-60 pounds

LeeD 12-01-2012 02:25 PM

Older racket when new was 59. What is it now.
New racket is 62, but what is it with Wilson's quality control?
More strings need SOFTER tension, to feel the same.
Less strings need stiffer tension, to feel the same.

allcourtplayer 12-01-2012 03:48 PM

so leed you saying i need to increase the tension more than what i was at before which was 60 on the mains(gut) and 58 on the crosses?

vic9 12-01-2012 08:09 PM

Okay, so it is a totally different racquet. Everyone is confirming with you to go with your original thought and reduce the tension.

Going from 18X20 to 16X19 makes a racquet less boardy. But others are trying to tell you that you didn't just change this one variable ...compare the specs you listed.

How are you liking your new racquet in terms of stiffness, swingweight, balance or position of the sweetspot? Having it more stiff, less plowthrough, more head light, or missing the sweetspot can make a racquet feel more boardy too. You could try playing around with some lead tape to see if that helps.


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