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-   -   Similarities between 1H backhand return and backhand volley (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=446885)

DonDiego 11-29-2012 10:16 AM

Similarities between 1H backhand return and backhand volley
 
I'm trying to learn these two shots, and the more I read about them and practice, I see similarities: Firm wrist, short backswing, ''blocking'' movement, etc. I'm just wondering how similar thee two shots - and their execution - should be, and if I should expect to learn one quicker by simultaneously learning the other. Any thoughts? Thanks.

LeeD 11-29-2012 10:21 AM

conti grip, the same. Firm, try to never lean back.
Other grips, maybe not.

DonDiego 11-29-2012 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7038192)
conti grip, the same. Firm, try to never lean back.
Other grips, maybe not.

Thanks.
But conti grip on 1H BH return? Really?

boramiNYC 11-29-2012 10:33 AM

I welcome this topic. they are indeed very similar in the footwork and timing. a fast sequence of prep and hit rather than pre----p and hit for reg 1hbh. also the legs and hip counter rotate while the upper body is rotating clockwise for righty. the front step of the closed stance works in this counter rotation for both. very important for both the coil is done fully on the left leg for righty.

SStrikerR 11-29-2012 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonDiego (Post 7038208)
Thanks.
But conti grip on 1H BH return? Really?

He's saying that if you used a continental bh grip then yes it'd be similar. But go watch a video of fed hitting returns, then a video of him hitting volleys. If that looks similar to you, good luck playing tennis with your blindfold.

LeeD 11-29-2012 10:41 AM

Fed might not have the same grip for his volleys and his slice backhand groundie.
If you have time to take a swing at the ball, why use a sliced backhand? Why not hit a topspin backhand, with the grip change and shortened backswing?
Any player who faces a real first serve uses the conti grip for all his returns until he get's used to the pace. Once he's dialed, he can use whatever.
If you can use forehand and backhand grips for return of serve every single time, you are playing low 4.0 tennis against weak servers.

boramiNYC 11-29-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonDiego (Post 7038208)
Thanks.
But conti grip on 1H BH return? Really?

conti grip for chip return. but the footwork still remain similar as I described.

DonDiego 11-29-2012 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7038222)
Fed might not have the same grip for his volleys and his slice backhand groundie.
If you have time to take a swing at the ball, why use a sliced backhand? Why not hit a topspin backhand, with the grip change and shortened backswing?
Any player who faces a real first serve uses the conti grip for all his returns until he get's used to the pace. Once he's dialed, he can use whatever.
If you can use forehand and backhand grips for return of serve every single time, you are playing low 4.0 tennis against weak servers.

You mean the player facing a real first serve uses a conti to BLOCK the ball on his returns? (instead of slicing or topspin)

LeeD 11-29-2012 11:05 AM

Returns of first fast serves are usually done around upper chest high, so a volley grip and technique can be either a pure block or a slight underspin, to a heavy chop.
First serves moving at you around 120+ just don't allow a sub 5.0 player to do more than barely block it back, with no spin intended one way or another. You just don't have the time to decide and take any kind of backswing.
When you reach 4.5, you have the time.
A top player facing Milo's or Roddick's first flats would almost always use a conti grip, to block or volleytechnique the returns. He would have NO time to take any kind of swing, or accurate grip switch.

DonDiego 11-29-2012 11:22 AM

Thanks a lot.
I'm a lower-end 4.0 who currently uses a two-hand backhand to block returns. But I a have a decent 1H backhand groundstroke and try to switch to one hand on returns. I play against 4.0 guys who have heavy first serves (by my standards).

With what you just explained, it seems to me that I should use a conti grip. It would have the added benefit of also improving my backhand volley technique a bit.

LeeD 11-29-2012 11:26 AM

Conti grip to counter FAST first serves.
You normal groundie grips to return much slower second serves.
And if that server is one of those weirdos who hit a fast second serve, it doesn't matter what grip you use, as he'll double fault on most important points.

LeeD 11-29-2012 11:28 AM

Also, if you face a really slow, or short second serve, a conti grip allows you to hit an approach shot with backspin and some sidespin, to allow you time to approach service line position to knock off his impending pass attempt or lob.
Since you're now returning from NML, a normal groundies is hard to control it's depth, so you hit long a lot. A conti grip gives you underspin, which has been proven to be the best depth control.

DonDiego 11-29-2012 11:59 AM

I came across this page, which dissect Federer's BH return. There is some nice footage where you see his grip when blocking the ball. Altough I'm not 100% sure, it looks like an in-between of conti and eastern BH grip to me.

See here: http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/a..._drive_return/

boramiNYC 11-29-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7038311)
Conti grip to counter FAST first serves.
You normal groundie grips to return much slower second serves.

difficult to give good advice not knowing the OP s 1hbh, but I disagree about conti for blocking fast serves. conti is specifically for slice and when blocked with conti ball flies up. for uncontrollable blockage fly the ball and hope it lands in but for controlled blockage normal grip will have the racquet face angle that is more controllable into court without flying the ball up too much. it just need some practice to extend the arm toward the contact point with no backswing at all.

LeeD 11-29-2012 12:12 PM

If you watch the top players, when they barely get to the ball, the ball bounces WAAAY HIGH, from the conti grip, and the lack of body/hand control on tough serves.
No way, can you block a fast serve back using your normal grips. Underspin is needed, and part of "blocking" the serve back.
An error to high is much much better than an error into the net. Returning big fast serves is all about limiting the damage from your errors.
But whatever, why do what Federer, Nadal, DJ, and Murray do? Use your own method, it's worked for you..:)

dominikk1985 11-29-2012 12:32 PM

becker was famous for a blocked BH return. It was not a chop but more of an abbreviated drive. he hit a lot of winners with it.

here is a vid (not a really good one but you get an idea)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXitxEkVz3Y

edit: here is a better one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VozraFh-20I

I Heart Thomas Muster 11-29-2012 12:41 PM

I'm having a hard time getting past his collar. He should change his nickname from "Boom Boom" to "Cool Breeze".

I Heart Thomas Muster 11-29-2012 12:45 PM

As for the OHBH return I use the same grip for the backhand and forehand so I wait to return with that grip. If I need to slice the return I change to Continental. Unless I get a slow serve I almost always take the loop out of the backhand return. I turn my upper body draw my arm back and try and meet the ball out front with an extended arm and firm wrist. I find you can get good depth and directional control with that type of abbreviated backhand return.

LeeD 11-29-2012 12:45 PM

Boris was 6'3" and 190 lbs.
Are you as strong as him?
I"m not. I"m 147 lbs., at 5'11".

tonygao 11-29-2012 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonDiego (Post 7038398)
I came across this page, which dissect Federer's BH return. There is some nice footage where you see his grip when blocking the ball. Altough I'm not 100% sure, it looks like an in-between of conti and eastern BH grip to me.

See here: http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/a..._drive_return/


great article, thanks a lot.

can't find the other two articles though:

The Forehand Return of Serve Part 2: Extreme Grips
The Forehand Return of Serve Part 1: Compact Classical


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