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-   -   Free weights VS resistance bands ? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=447187)

junbumkim 12-03-2012 01:28 AM

Free weights VS resistance bands ?
 
What is the difference in its affect on muscle between free weights VS resistance bands?

Say Chi Sin Lo 12-03-2012 02:55 AM

I'm not an expert on muscle development, but to me it feels like the following:

Free weights = Individual reps have more or less identical resistance throughout the motion + gradual challenge towards the end of the set.

Resistance bands = Individual have more resistance towards the extreme end of the motion + gradual challenge towards the end of the set.

That gradual increase in resistance towards the extreme end of the motion helps build endurance/stamina (I think).

To me, when available, resistance bands gives a better workout. (But it's hard to find equivalent resistant band once you go past certain weights, that's the problem.)

tlm 12-03-2012 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo (Post 7043969)
I'm not an expert on muscle development, but to me it feels like the following:

Free weights = Individual reps have more or less identical resistance throughout the motion + gradual challenge towards the end of the set.

Resistance bands = Individual have more resistance towards the extreme end of the motion + gradual challenge towards the end of the set.

That gradual increase in resistance towards the extreme end of the motion helps build endurance/stamina (I think).

To me, when available, resistance bands gives a better workout. (But it's hard to find equivalent resistant band once you go past certain weights, that's the problem.)


Like you said you are no expert on muscle development.

chrischris 12-03-2012 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7043989)
Like you said you are no expert on muscle development.

And you are no star on clarification. :)

Itagaki 12-03-2012 08:31 AM

I will say this much

One advantage of free weights over resistance bands is ease ofprogressive overload.

With weights it's very easy to increase the resistance in a measurable increment (i.e. add 5lbs). It's a bit tougher to quantify with resistance bands, and thus makes it harder to plan progression

Chas Tennis 12-03-2012 08:39 AM

Free Weights, Cables & Resistance Bands
 
Free Weights. Free weights always produce force downward. To load muscles in various locations along the joint's range of motion the body has to be reoriented using different exercises. Force always stays the same, downward.
Triceps Exercises -examples of changing body position to emphasize different portions of the joint's Range of Motion for triceps.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ceps-extension
http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...bbell-kickback

Cables with Weights. Cables & pulleys always produce force in the direction of the cable which often changes during the exercise. Force magnitude stays the same, but direction changes.

Resistance Bands. Resistance bands, like cables always pull in the direction of the resistance band. Resistance bands change force magnitude significantly with length/stretch. I believe the force associated with a resistance band is usually listed for 100% lengthening or doubling of the band length. For example, a '25lb' resistance band will pull with 25 lbs force when its length is doubled (100% elongation). Force magnitude varies with length and direction changes. A short elastic band will vary force more than a long band as length is varied.
http://www.thera-band.com/UserFiles/..._Manual_v5.pdf

For all exercises the muscle does no work when it shortens in a direction perpendicular to the resistance force (for free weights & cables there's no work when the exercise does not move the weight up in gravity). For example, if you stand and curl a dumbbell at the very beginning when the arm is straight down at the side there is no resistance to flexing the arm - the weight moves forward but not up. For the curl also at the top there is little force required to finish flexing the arm. This is why certain body exercises are done with the body in different positions. For example, curling on a 45 d. bench causes the muscles to work much harder at the beginning of the curl, etc.

There are some hip exercises that I do with resistance band loops because they are idea. Clamshells, etc.

BTW, I think that I sometimes nick Therabands with my fingernails and a short length will soon break off the end.

I have a long Theraband tied near the microwave and do external shoulder rotation exercises while heating stuff. First, there's a light set to warm up and then a heavier set for conditioning. [Very heavy resistance is not recommended for rotator cuff conditioning.]

Another TW thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showt...band+exercises

tennisenthusiast 12-03-2012 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itagaki (Post 7044401)
I will say this much

One advantage of free weights over resistance bands is ease ofprogressive overload.

With weights it's very easy to increase the resistance in a measurable increment (i.e. add 5lbs). It's a bit tougher to quantify with resistance bands, and thus makes it harder to plan progression

+1

10plusones.

tlm 12-03-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrischris (Post 7044215)
And you are no star on clarification. :)

Okay well free weights are for gaining real strength, power and size if you eat enough and work hard enough. The bands are great for working from different angles and are good for injury prevention, but not much for making strength and power gains.

Say Chi Sin Lo 12-03-2012 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7045285)
Okay well free weights are for gaining real strength, power and size if you eat enough and work hard enough. The bands are great for working from different angles and are good for injury prevention, but not much for making strength and power gains.

Captain obvious pointing out the obvious.

chrischris 12-04-2012 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7045285)
Okay well free weights are for gaining real strength, power and size if you eat enough and work hard enough. The bands are great for working from different angles and are good for injury prevention, but not much for making strength and power gains.

Are rubber bands not more better as they are more functional

.. Mass and 'real' strength is not always good.

Chas Tennis 12-04-2012 01:45 AM

Resistance Band Loops 'Clamshells' for the Gluteus Medius
 
Here is an exercise to strengthen the gluteus medius - see the second video for "Hip Clamshells in the Neutral Position".

http://www.mikereinold.com/2011/04/t...Reinold.com%29

My physical therapist said to do the exercise with hips straight and to hold for 6 seconds. Do the exercise for about 2 minutes.

I'm sure there is some way to do this with free weights or cables but the resistance bands are ideal. The increase in resistance as the bands lengthen is a plus in my opinion.

This exercise strengthens the gluteus medius, an often neglected muscle important for balance and movement. I believe that this muscle helps maintain leg posture and reduces the risk of knee problems.

junbumkim 12-04-2012 02:42 AM

I remember that there are different types (sizes) of muscle fibers, and they are activated according to the force required. For example, if we have to lift 50lb weight, large muscle fibers will be activated whereas if small muscle fibers will be activated with less force (like resistance band).

And, I am curious as to what type of roles these different muscle fibers play role in our body. Perhaps, working on these smaller muscle fibers is more crucial in improving balance than on large muscle fibers?

tlm 12-04-2012 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo (Post 7045367)
Captain obvious pointing out the obvious.

Well it wasn't obvious to you, the one that obviously has no clue of strength training.

Chas Tennis 12-04-2012 03:28 AM

A muscle exists in the body. All muscles have a very poor mechanical advantage and have to produce very large forces to move joints and do work at distance. When you have a smaller muscle working with very poor leverage - say a deltoid in the shoulder - you do not need much resistance at the hand to exercise the muscle.

At first I saw resistance bands as inferior to heavier weight exercises, my ignorance. Now I see them as very useful and especially useful for the many smaller muscles that I've learned are important for performance and to reduce the risk of injury.

If you want to add muscle mass to your thighs then I would squat with free weights or do leg presses. If you want to condition your rotator cuffs for strength and endurance especially to prevent shoulder injuries then very light dumbbells or cables, or resistance bands are better than heavier weights. Also, there are exercise that if done with a lot of resistance or weight will bypass the smaller muscles (like the rotator cuffs) and instead use bigger muscles. That's counter productive.

(I believe that I tore my rotator cuff (supraspinatus) by doing heavy cable external rotations at the gym. 25lbs? Later I learned that external shoulder rotations for rotator cuffs should not be done with heavier weights.)

I don't know the type of muscle fiber in the various muscles. Some muscles have more of a support, hold position, isometric type function, the abs for example. Maybe these don't have as many fast twitch muscles. ?

I believe one of the best exercises to introduce yourself to the value of conditioning a smaller muscle with resistance bands is the Clamshell. The first reps are not bad but at 2 or 2.5 minutes you will know what your gluteus medius is. It is also fast to respond with results including some hypertrophy in 4-5 weeks.

Gluteus Medius function & the Trendelenburg test (pelvis stability on one leg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trendelenburg%27s_sign

You can buy a 5' Theraband length or a 12" loop. I use a 12" blue and red loop together for Clamshells. I also used to do 'firehydrants' with the same 12" loops, an exercise with detailed motions as specified by my physical therapist. Also 'Monsterwalks' using an 8" black loop (tied). I don't think that they sell black loops.

For rotator cuff external shoulder rotations I use a long yellow Theraband. I warm up with it less stretched where the force is low and then move away to increase the resistance. Because it is long the force can start out high and increase as I externally rotate my shoulder. I put a towel between my upper arm and body as usually recommended.

tlm 12-04-2012 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrischris (Post 7045674)
Are rubber bands not more better as they are more functional

.. Mass and 'real' strength is not always good.

It does depend on what you are looking for, bands are great for being easier to use and also safer. Like I said they are great for injury prevention especially shoulder work, but free weights to me are much better if you really want to gain strength.

Plus the added benefit of balance is used a lot more with free weights, more muscles come into play to stabilize you through free weight exercises. That is why body movements with weight added are even better than regular free weight exercises.

junbumkim 12-04-2012 04:27 AM

http://resistancebandtraining.com/li...ight-training/

I think this maybe the reason why resistance band may be more beneficial for tennis. It may lead to more well-developed muslce.

Over the years in this forum, there have been a few threads on exercises that improved their movement, and people have sworn by yoga over building their leg muscles. Yoga not increases your flexibility, but also improves your strengths, and I wondered how it is different from free-weights. Resistance bands seemed more comparable to yoga, so i thought I would start the thread.

charliefedererer 12-04-2012 08:28 AM

Does it have to be one or the other?

Many think the Thrower's Ten exercises are the best exercises to hep prevent shoulder, arm, elbow and wrist injuries.

Is it mere coincidence that the Thrower's Ten combines the best of free weights and resistance bands?

Thrower's Ten Exercises http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/a...throwers10.pdf

Say Chi Sin Lo 12-04-2012 11:11 AM

Deleted because someone was wise enough to talk some sense into me.

Itagaki 12-04-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo (Post 7046462)
You're going to talk strength training to someone who: has had to came back from two shoulder surgeries, I'm 140lbs and can bench 200lbs+ as sets (not maxing out). Yep, don't anything about strength training.

Dude be smart and pick your battles wisely. Not to mention your initial post had no value in this thread whatsoever, all you wanted to do was to start a fight.

Lastly, muscle development, I has it. And it's not the big bulky ones. Useless for tennis in my opinion, but what do I know? I know nothing about strength training right?





Come on, keep talking trash about how I don't know anything about muscle development. I'd love to hear it. I think I've struck a delicate balance of strength and not bulking up.

I'm not the person you're responding to nor have I addressed you before, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish here?

Not trying to be mean, but I just don't understand your logic. "I bench press 200lbs+ for sets, therefore I know something about strength training"

This is not a syllogistic statement, I am sure there are plenty of gym rats who don't actually know anything about strength training that can get to the same level. I will admit the fact that you've done so following shoulder surgeries is pretty awesome though (got any vids?).

There are after all plenty of people who don't do but "know" in the sense that they are educated. Don McCauley was an awful weightlifter, but is a great coach so he "knows" but was not good at "doing". Just as the converse exists

Moving on, what's the point of your pictures? What exactly does this prove?

To tlm's defense, I think he was just taking your initial post of "i'm no expert at muscle development" and taking it to an extreme. His "initial post" was not confrontational, he simply made a statement regarding bands versus free weights, you're the one that labeled it as stating the obvious leading to his rebuttal

r2473 12-04-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Say Chi Sin Lo (Post 7046462)
I think I've struck a delicate balance of strength and not bulking up.

If I touch a barbell, I add 50 lbs. of muscle.

How on earth do you manage to strike this delicate balance?


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