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-   -   Why has no female player been able to dominate clay like Henin has since 2000? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=447467)

Razoredge 12-06-2012 08:02 AM

Why has no female player been able to dominate clay like Henin has since 2000?
 
Since 2000 their has only been one chick to win multiple french opens: Justine Henin.

What's going on with the rest of the field?

sunof tennis 12-06-2012 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razoredge (Post 7049621)
Since 2000 their has only been one chick to win multiple french opens: Justine Henin.

What's going on with the rest of the field?

Probably the same thing which is going on with a lot of the men. Most grow up on hard courts playing only one way-ball bashing, and cannot actually construct a point.

El Diablo 12-06-2012 08:17 AM

Completely strange question. Let's reverse it. Why would you expect any particular player to dominate on clay??? The women seem to mostly have such similar styles of play that I can't imagine why you'd expect one of them to rise well above the others. It might happen once in a while, but I'd expect that to be the unusual circumstance.

Razoredge 12-06-2012 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Diablo (Post 7049648)
Completely strange question. Let's reverse it. Why would you expect any particular player to dominate on clay??? The women seem to mostly have such similar styles of play that I can't imagine why you'd expect one of them to rise well above the others. It might happen once in a while, but I'd expect that to be the unusual circumstance.

Maybe dominate is the wrong word, but don't you think it's weird that in 12 years only 1 player has won more than a single FO? Even one of the greatest players of all time, Serena Williams, could only manage to scratch up a single French Open?

El Diablo 12-06-2012 08:30 AM

No, it's exactly what I'd expect on a surface that makes all those grinders essentially interchangeable. Serena at times has lacked the patience to succeed on that surface, though she seems to have it now.

single_handed_champion 12-06-2012 10:26 AM

Surface does not matter much to the players on the WTA (in terms of adjusting strategy), except for players like Stosur, Kuznetsova or Errani who actually benefit from clay. The rest of them see it as a disadvantage, not being able to slide and hit angles to control points and growing impatient instead. It becomes a case of who hates it least during the fortnight and put enough balls in court.

While Justine was no Nadal, she moved beautifully on clay, was an aggressive player and could vary height, depth and pace. I don't think players these days are conditioned to play like that.

sureshs 12-06-2012 11:07 AM

Why has no male player been able to dominate clay like Nadal has?

BevelDevil 12-06-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7049966)
Why has no male player been able to dominate clay like Nadal has?

Because Nadal hasn't retired yet.

Also, if Nadal hadn't existed, we'd be talking about Federer's dominance on clay. And if neither Federer nor Nadal existed?...

dominikk1985 12-06-2012 02:19 PM

well most WTA girls are not from southern europe like most clay courters are but instead from eastern europe or america where they play on hard.

how many czech male clay court specialists do you know?:D

Sabratha 12-06-2012 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BevelDevil (Post 7050251)
Because Nadal hasn't retired yet.

Also, if Nadal hadn't existed, we'd be talking about Federer's dominance on clay. And if neither Federer nor Nadal existed?...

If they didn't exist, it would be Djokovic.

TERRASTAR18 12-06-2012 09:23 PM

how come the great henin did win the career slam but "the cow on ice" sharapova did?

Razoredge 12-06-2012 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERRASTAR18 (Post 7050864)
how come the great henin did win the career slam but "the cow on ice" sharapova did?

Luck? Certainly isn't talent or skill.

Anyways, what are you implying with this post? That Sharapova is a better player than Henin? LOL

Pretty sure you're a Williams sisters fan, do you also think Sharapova is better than Venus?

TERRASTAR18 12-06-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razoredge (Post 7050870)
Luck? Certainly isn't talent or skill.

Anyways, what are you implying with this post? That Sharapova is a better player than Henin? LOL

Pretty sure you're a Williams sisters fan, do you also think Sharapova is better than Venus?

serena fan,yes. and the maria comment is oppose the hypocrisy in your post. henin has only 2 more majors than maria.....venus has about 15 more and 3 more olympic medals.so it's an easier case to make than maria still in her prime can win maybe 3 or 4 more majors to overtake henin and after who would have the better career then?

NadalAgassi 12-06-2012 09:47 PM

Maria I would not consider better than Henin even if she did reach 7 singles majors like Henin (which I doubt she will). I am not a fan of either player, but Henin is the undisputed hands down best player of her era, Serena included on one surface, clay. Maria is not and never will be the best player of her era on any surface. Henin was the games best player most of a 5 year stretch from 2003-2007. Maria has never been the games best player for even a single year, in fact there isnt even a moment she was ever considered the best in the World, even directly after her 4 major wins. Random majors spread out over a long period of time cannot be compared to being the dominant clay courter of the last 15 years, and being the dominant player of the mid 2000s.

TennisChannel ranked Maria way below Capriati, who even before Marias FO title, had fewer credentials than Maria, so Marias patchwork career of greatness obviously does not impress the experts of the game either.

Razoredge 12-06-2012 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERRASTAR18 (Post 7050885)
serena fan,yes. and the maria comment is oppose the hypocrisy in your post. henin has only 2 more majors than maria.....venus has about 15 more and 3 more olympic medals.so it's an easier case to make than maria still in her prime can win maybe 3 or 4 more majors to overtake henin and after who would have the better career then?

You realize that Venus only has 7 major titles, right? That's only 3 more than Maria and the same as Henin.

Also, Maria has never dominated a field like Henin has for even one year let alone multiple years. Maria has never been number 1 for anywhere near the extended period of time Henin has, she's never been number 1 for three year ends. Maria has never won multiple majors in a year like Henin has. Maria has never successfully defended a major or even win a major one year after the other like Henin has.

Maria is the type of player that can only win a major every two or three years when everything is going her way.

NadalAgassi 12-06-2012 09:49 PM

Actually 7 majors is 3 more than Maria. Maria has only won 4. Funny to see several posters now handing Maria an extra major somewhere, lol! Maybe projecting ahead 5 years to her final career total, which indeed will probably be 2 behind Venus and Henin still, with her winning 1 more major probably a good guess looking at her career ratios thus far, and recognizing she is no Serena and wont be contending for majors at 28 or beyond. As for Venus`slam count, obviously TerraStar was counting her doubles wins in that total.

Razoredge 12-06-2012 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7050892)
Actually 7 majors is 3 more than Maria. Maria has only won 4. Funny to see several posters now handing Maria an extra major somewhere, lol! Maybe projecting ahead 5 years to her final career total, which indeed will probably be 2 behind Venus and Henin still, with her winning 1 more major probably a good guess looking at her career ratios thus far, and recognizing she is no Serena and wont be contending for majors at 28 or beyond. As for Venus`slam count, obviously TerraStar was counting her doubles wins in that total.

We're talking about singles here, don't know why doubles would even matter.

TERRASTAR18 12-06-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razoredge (Post 7050891)
You realize that Venus only has 7 major titles, right? That's only 3 more than Maria and the same as Henin.

Also, Maria has never dominated a field like Henin has for even one year let alone multiple years. Maria has never been number 1 for anywhere near the extended period of time Henin has, she's never been number 1 for three year ends. Maria has never won multiple majors in a year like Henin has. Maria has never successfully defended a major or even win a major one year after the other like Henin has.

Maria is the type of player that can only win a major every two or three years when everything is going her way.

you are forgetting about doubles? or is that a new form of basketball not tennis? henin's "dominance" is mostly due to serena's injuries. didn't maria beat henin in a slam final? finishing year number 1 has no significance w/o the majors. how many years did hingis and davenport finish number 1 without winning a major? if maria had been ye1 at any time in the last 5 years she would be goat because it would be impossible for her under the new rules where the ranking rewards attendance not so much performance. and she can't even make up for it with majors because unlike henin, she has to deal with a goat level serena not a injured dealing with her sister's death serena. and henin only had 2 multiple grand slam win years all during the serena sabbatical. she(maria) couldn't "have things go her way" by cheating(hand incident) or having a partisan french crowd like henin. i guess that last part explains your opening question.

TERRASTAR18 12-06-2012 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razoredge (Post 7050893)
We're talking about singles here, don't know why doubles would even matter.

who said you get to make the rules? there are 3 disciplines in tennis. it's not my fault henin was 1 dimensional.

TERRASTAR18 12-06-2012 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7050889)
Maria I would not consider better than Henin even if she did reach 7 singles majors like Henin (which I doubt she will). I am not a fan of either player, but Henin is the undisputed hands down best player of her era, Serena included on one surface, clay. Maria is not and never will be the best player of her era on any surface. Henin was the games best player most of a 5 year stretch from 2003-2007. Maria has never been the games best player for even a single year, in fact there isnt even a moment she was ever considered the best in the World, even directly after her 4 major wins. Random majors spread out over a long period of time cannot be compared to being the dominant clay courter of the last 15 years, and being the dominant player of the mid 2000s.

TennisChannel ranked Maria way below Capriati, who even before Marias FO title, had fewer credentials than Maria, so Marias patchwork career of greatness obviously does not impress the experts of the game either.

the same experts had serena out of the top ten....:cry: besides capriati is american and the usta always loved that druggie. i was surprised she wasn't ahead of fed.


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