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-   -   Question for Kevlar users (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=448127)

jason586 12-13-2012 03:36 PM

Question for Kevlar users
 
I played Kevlar for the first time last week (Ashaway Kevlar 17 at 50lbs / OGSM syn gut at 56lbs) in a Vantage 95" 16 x19. I like the control, consistency, and the fact that it is playing well 25 hours after stringing. What I do not like is rallying at the baseline in singles and not having enough pop and spin to put pressure like I could with a full bed of fresh poly. Obviously, I can not get the same power in a Kevlar hybrid as fresh full poly; so my question is what to try next as far as tension and cross string to add more power AND spin to a Kevlar main than the hybrid I am currently using.

I have a 2nd vantage 95" with the same specs that I want to string.
So those of you who have experimented and have personal experience with Kevlar, how much difference will I get in spin and power by dropping the tension and going to a poly cross
FROM: Ashaway Kevlar 17 at 50lbs / OGSM syn gut at 56lbs............TO: Ashaway Kevlar 17 at 42 lbs / a POLY cross at 48 lbs?

tlm 12-13-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason586 (Post 7061933)
I played Kevlar for the first time last week (Ashaway Kevlar 17 at 50lbs / OGSM syn gut at 56lbs) in a Vantage 95" 16 x19. I like the control, consistency, and the fact that it is playing well 25 hours after stringing. What I do not like is rallying at the baseline in singles and not having enough pop and spin to put pressure like I could with a full bed of fresh poly. Obviously, I can not get the same power in a Kevlar hybrid as fresh full poly; so my question is what to try next as far as tension and cross string to add more power AND spin to a Kevlar main than the hybrid I am currently using.

I have a 2nd vantage 95" with the same specs that I want to string.
So those of you who have experimented and have personal experience with Kevlar, how much difference will I get in spin and power by dropping the tension and going from Ashaway Kevlar 17 at 50lbs / OGSM syn gut at 56lbs ...to.....Ashaway Kevlar 17 at 42 lbs / poly cross at 48 lbs?

I would suggest changing the x's to a poly. I use yonex poly tour spin as a x's with gamma power play kevlar main and it plays very well. Adding poly as a x's adds more spin and power to kevlar.

jason586 12-13-2012 05:33 PM

I am planning on using a poly cross, but I believe polys have less power than syn guts in general. So, I would assume a Kevlar/Poly hybrid would have less power than a Kevlar/SynGut hybrid at the SAME TENSION which is why I am planning on dropping the tension as well?

So, I'm wondering from those who have tried personally - how big a difference will an 8 lb drop in tension + changing to a poly cross make, and will it still retain the same control?

Hi I'm Ray 12-14-2012 12:22 AM

Kevlar has no power, even at low tension. I find more power with syn gut than poly. I see from your other thread that you are trying to get a ton of hours out of a kevlar string job but poly in the crosses will die quickly, and when it dies you'll be left with either an ultra dead string job or depending on the poly, it may also be super harsh. If there was a string that had spin, power, and lasted forever we'd all be using it. A strining machine + reels is the way to go for someone who plays a lot and wants performance while keeping costs down.

txt858 12-14-2012 01:25 PM

If you want more power, poly crosses is not the way to go. If anything, I say lower the tension on the main (kevlar) to about 45lbs or 40lbs and either keep the cross (syn gut) at 57lbs or maybe 55lbs. Let the cross do more of the impact and trampolining affect. The crosses is where you will get your power.

And if you can handle the additional weight, add some lead tape at 12 o'clock or at 3 & 9 o'clock, then you will see/feel the power dramatically.

JT_2eighty 12-14-2012 01:38 PM

I've experimented a lot with kevlar. It is so stiff that you can easily play it at 40 lbs, and it will still be low powered. While poly crosses will enhance spin, you still will have low power.

Like someone else said, there is no magic setup that will have extreme durability as well as great playability. Every string setup has a trade-off... but... I will say, if you try poly crosses and string the setup LOW, like 35/40, you may like it.

Poly at low tension will open up some power, and still have more control than a syn gut at 50. The kevlar main will reign in that power. Poly crosses do allow the kevlar mains to slide around and that will help spin dramatically.

I've even strung kevlar/poly at 22 lbs, it had monster spin and the control was still decent, but flat directionality was a bit erratic. Power still low, compared to a full poly. Kevlar/gut is nice too, at around 40/45, that had as much power as you can get with kevlar... but the kevlar shreds the gut crosses, so there goes your durability.

Start perhaps with Kevlar/poly (use a softer, power poly like PS Energy), and do 40m/45c. This way you will see each side of the extreme, and can tweak it back in the direction you want, more or less. You'll be surprised how low power kevlar is, even at 40 lbs. I also find kevlar *immensely* more comfy by dropping into the 30s-40s.

jason586 12-14-2012 05:20 PM

I understand Kevlar is the lowest power string, but I like everything about it except for the power. I will probably move back to full poly beds just due to the lack of power with a Kevlar Main, but I want to first try Kevlar with a poly cross at the tension that will give me the most power that Kevlar can give without sacrificing the control Kevlar gives.
A) Is 40lbs Kevlar Main and 45 Poly Cross the answer for my attempt of a Kevlar/Poly Hybrid????
B) Also, I thought I had 17 gauge Ashaway Kevlar, but I think I actually have 16 gauge. Does 18 gauge Kevlar have more power than 16 gauge Kevlar???


I believe there are magic set ups, but that a magic set up for one person will not be the same magic for another due to playing style, skill level, racquet, etc.
That being said, I clearly understand that there is no string or string hybrid that has the best of everything.

Kevlar positives (main reasons people use it):
1) Control - I like the control of Kevlar.
2) Durability - I like the durability of Kevlar.
3) Consistent playability until it breaks - I like the consistent playability for Kevlar.
4) Long Lasting Spin - I like the long lasting spin of Kevlar.

Kevlar Negatives (main reasons not used):
1) Hard on the arm - I have no issue of pain with Kevlar(so far).
2) Boardy Feel - I have no issue with the feel of Kevlar.
3) Less Spin (vs Fresh Poly) - I like the insane spin of fresh poly, but that is not a deal breaker for me.
4) Lack of Power - This is the only reason I am not 100% with Kevlar.

I had one Vantage strung with Genesis Black Magic at 56lbs/Multi at 60lbs and the other with the Ashaway Kevlar at 50 lbs/OGSM at 56lbs.
With both beds fairly new the fresh poly hybrid had more spin even with a multi cross. Now that there is about 8 hours on the poly hybrid stick the Kevlar hybrid definitely has more spin (but still less power). You can still really feel the Kevlar biting into the ball when you add extra spin on a forehand or kick serve even after 25+ hours on the string.

Hi I'm Ray 12-14-2012 05:51 PM

I liked kevlar better when it was strung low, around 40lbs and I had it strung with a syn gut cross. I used 18ga, can't imagine using 16ga kevlar.

Keep in mind when choosing your poly cross and tension that you have polys like CoFocus that become looser as it ages until it becomes a net, and those that keep getting tighter like Silverstring.

JT_2eighty 12-17-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason586 (Post 7063757)
I understand Kevlar is the lowest power string, but I like everything about it except for the power. I will probably move back to full poly beds just due to the lack of power with a Kevlar Main, but I want to first try Kevlar with a poly cross at the tension that will give me the most power that Kevlar can give without sacrificing the control Kevlar gives.
A) Is 40lbs Kevlar Main and 45 Poly Cross the answer for my attempt of a Kevlar/Poly Hybrid????
B) Also, I thought I had 17 gauge Ashaway Kevlar, but I think I actually have 16 gauge. Does 18 gauge Kevlar have more power than 16 gauge Kevlar???

...

Now that there is about 8 hours on the poly hybrid stick the Kevlar hybrid definitely has more spin (but still less power). You can still really feel the Kevlar biting into the ball when you add extra spin on a forehand or kick serve even after 25+ hours on the string.

a) I think 40 kevlar / 45 poly will help you get closer to your answer. It may be great.
b) a thinner gauge will definitely add some power and also help in the spin and feel departments. Since it's kevlar, durability is still great. I personally enjoyed Gamma's 19g Fusion TNT kevlar string. It is perhaps the softest kevlar you can find. Another option (half the price) is Forten Ultra Thin.

I also agree that kevlar will provide more spin, especially over time (poly was made to be a short-lived string, it's amazing in the first few hours, and ok for a few after that, and usually after 10, 12, etc it's lost its luster. Higher level you go, the less time you have for that luster).

The issue as you stated with kevlar is that extremely lower power. It can create a lot of spin, but the kind that can sit up and be put away and not quite the *heavy penetrating spin* that you can get with poly. But, once you dial into the low power, you may get used to feel of the string, and through increased confidence, be able to hit harder and get a penetrating ball as well with kevlar.

Good luck!

tlm 12-17-2012 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason586 (Post 7063757)
I understand Kevlar is the lowest power string, but I like everything about it except for the power. I will probably move back to full poly beds just due to the lack of power with a Kevlar Main, but I want to first try Kevlar with a poly cross at the tension that will give me the most power that Kevlar can give without sacrificing the control Kevlar gives.
A) Is 40lbs Kevlar Main and 45 Poly Cross the answer for my attempt of a Kevlar/Poly Hybrid????
B) Also, I thought I had 17 gauge Ashaway Kevlar, but I think I actually have 16 gauge. Does 18 gauge Kevlar have more power than 16 gauge Kevlar???


I believe there are magic set ups, but that a magic set up for one person will not be the same magic for another due to playing style, skill level, racquet, etc.
That being said, I clearly understand that there is no string or string hybrid that has the best of everything.

Kevlar positives (main reasons people use it):
1) Control - I like the control of Kevlar.
2) Durability - I like the durability of Kevlar.
3) Consistent playability until it breaks - I like the consistent playability for Kevlar.
4) Long Lasting Spin - I like the long lasting spin of Kevlar.

Kevlar Negatives (main reasons not used):
1) Hard on the arm - I have no issue of pain with Kevlar(so far).
2) Boardy Feel - I have no issue with the feel of Kevlar.
3) Less Spin (vs Fresh Poly) - I like the insane spin of fresh poly, but that is not a deal breaker for me.
4) Lack of Power - This is the only reason I am not 100% with Kevlar.

I had one Vantage strung with Genesis Black Magic at 56lbs/Multi at 60lbs and the other with the Ashaway Kevlar at 50 lbs/OGSM at 56lbs.
With both beds fairly new the fresh poly hybrid had more spin even with a multi cross. Now that there is about 8 hours on the poly hybrid stick the Kevlar hybrid definitely has more spin (but still less power). You can still really feel the Kevlar biting into the ball when you add extra spin on a forehand or kick serve even after 25+ hours on the string.

You need to try gamma power play, it has more power than other kevlar strings.

JT_2eighty 12-17-2012 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7068373)
You need to try gamma power play, it has more power than other kevlar strings.

Also a great choice.

Gamma's kevlar/aramid strings are definitely among the softest of the kevlar family. Crossed with a lively, soft poly, and you should be able to find the blend of control/spin/power/durability that you are looking for. For those who may think kevlar/poly sounds like a setup made to break elbows, strung at reasonable tensions it is actually not as crazy as it sounds. Full ALU@45 to me is less forgiving to the arm than {Gamma TNT aramid 19/PS Energy 17 @ 40/45}

jason586 12-18-2012 01:42 PM

Playing with this 16G Kevlar main for about 2 weeks has me leary about the being able to create enough pop with Kevlar, but you both point to the same answer to my lack of power problem
=> 18 gauge + lowering tension to 40/45ish with a soft poly.

That could definitely be my answer and something that is cost effective if it adds enough power for me. I just searched online, and 18 gauge Gamma Power Play can be had for $4.95 which would be only $2.50 per main. Unfortunately - shipping is more than the string itself when buying only 1 set, and I do not want to buy more than one at this point until I know if it will work for me.


Do either of you have a half set of 18 gauge kevlar to trade?


Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7068373)
You need to try gamma power play, it has more power than other kevlar strings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JT_2eighty (Post 7068373)
Also a great choice.

Gamma's kevlar/aramid strings are definitely among the softest of the kevlar family. Crossed with a lively, soft poly, and you should be able to find the blend of control/spin/power/durability that you are looking for. For those who may think kevlar/poly sounds like a setup made to break elbows, strung at reasonable tensions it is actually not as crazy as it sounds. Full ALU@45 to me is less forgiving to the arm than {Gamma TNT aramid 19/PS Energy 17 @ 40/45}


J011yroger 12-18-2012 02:11 PM

I switched to Ashaway 16/ALU Rough at 70# after string life of full ALU at 70# became too much to bear.

Then the Kevlar blend broke all my racquets, so now I am using BBO/ALU Rough at 50#, and I like it, even though it took some getting used to.

I was breaking the full ALU in about an hour, the Kevlar/ALU in 3-5 hours, and now break the BBO/ALU in 1-3 hours.

J

tlm 12-18-2012 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason586 (Post 7069465)
Playing with this 16G Kevlar main for about 2 weeks has me leary about the being able to create enough pop with Kevlar, but you both point to the same answer to my lack of power problem
=> 18 gauge + lowering tension to 40/45ish with a soft poly.

That could definitely be my answer and something that is cost effective if it adds enough power for me. I just searched online, and 18 gauge Gamma Power Play can be had for $4.95 which would be only $2.50 per main. Unfortunately - shipping is more than the string itself when buying only 1 set, and I do not want to buy more than one at this point until I know if it will work for me.


Do either of you have a half set of 18 gauge kevlar to trade?


I don't have an extra half set, but you can buy it from ******* because for some reason TW does not carry it. There it is $6 a set with shipping at $6.99, but if you buy some other string it would be worth it. I advise yonex poly tour spin as a cross with the power play main, this is a great combo. I string mine at 58 lbs. on the mains with the x's at 63 lbs.

tlm 12-18-2012 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J011yroger (Post 7069502)
I switched to Ashaway 16/ALU Rough at 70# after string life of full ALU at 70# became too much to bear.

Then the Kevlar blend broke all my racquets, so now I am using BBO/ALU Rough at 50#, and I like it, even though it took some getting used to.

I was breaking the full ALU in about an hour, the Kevlar/ALU in 3-5 hours, and now break the BBO/ALU in 1-3 hours.

J

Damn J you are a bad *** breaking that kind of string in that short of time.

J011yroger 12-19-2012 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7069904)
Damn J you are a bad *** breaking that kind of string in that short of time.

Now if only I could figure out how to get my serve in the *%&^% box when someone was keeping score I would be all set lol.

J

jason586 12-19-2012 01:38 PM

Thanks for your help.
I'm definitely going to try 18 gauge Kevlar mains next. I have a 1/2 set of Black Magic 17 I will try for the crosses as I thought it was too soft as a poly main. That should give me a good idea if Kevlar is going to work for me long term or not.
Since I'm going thinner gauge, I think I will string only 5 pounds lower (instead of 10) with the Kevlar at 45 and the BM at 50. If I can not get enough power increase from that set up, I think I will be done experimenting with Kevlar. Hopefully, this will be just what I'm looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlm (Post 7069900)
I don't have an extra half set, but you can buy it from ******* because for some reason TW does not carry it. There it is $6 a set with shipping at $6.99, but if you buy some other string it would be worth it. I advise yonex poly tour spin as a cross with the power play main, this is a great combo. I string mine at 58 lbs. on the mains with the x's at 63 lbs.


J011yroger 12-19-2012 02:25 PM

^^^ For what it is worth, you get more pop out of Kevlar the tighter you string it.

If you are hurting for power, string it tighter.

J

jason586 12-19-2012 02:54 PM

Really??? I am hurting for a bit more power, and the Kevlar does not bother my arm so far. But really tighter is more power - why is this???

If I want to figure out if I can get enough power out of Kevlar before moving back to full poly, what would you suggest as the most powerful kevlar (main only) set up and tension???
I notice you play with 16 ga, but have you tried thinner kevlar?? Did it give you more power/pop???

Quote:

Originally Posted by J011yroger (Post 7071161)
^^^ For what it is worth, you get more pop out of Kevlar the tighter you string it.

If you are hurting for power, string it tighter.

J


tlm 12-19-2012 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J011yroger (Post 7071161)
^^^ For what it is worth, you get more pop out of Kevlar the tighter you string it.

If you are hurting for power, string it tighter.

J

I agree I am stringing mine between 58-60 lbs.


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