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-   -   Video hitting some serves - critique wanted (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=448202)

JackB1 12-14-2012 02:49 PM

Video hitting some serves - critique wanted
 
ad side serves
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIGX4touWHc

deuce side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTjmVNQzqpI

I can see how I a falling to the left instead of straight into the court.
that one thing I am working on.

I know my from isn't the greatest, but I can usually hold serve about 75% of the time and only double fault about 2, 3 times a match. Any suggestions on what I can improve would be great. Thanks.

TheCheese 12-14-2012 02:51 PM

I didn't know Sam Querrey posted on TT.

The biggest thing that stands out for me is that you don't get a very deep racket drop. Your arm seems kind of stiff.

5263 12-14-2012 02:53 PM

Really has the waiter position going.

JackB1 12-14-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCheese (Post 7063579)
I didn't know Sam Querrey posted on TT.

The biggest thing that stands out for me is that you don't get a very deep racket drop. Your arm seems kind of stiff.

yes I see that. I will try and get a little more up and down motion next time and let the racquet drop some before going up at the ball. Great point, thanks!

LeeD 12-14-2012 03:12 PM

Waiter, feet pinned together, weak serves for such a strong swing......something looks really wrong.
Don't get me wrong, the swing is NOT strong. It's strong only in context to how weak the ball moves.

TheCheese 12-14-2012 03:18 PM

One thing about your toss that nobody has mentioned.

You really throw the toss up there by abruptly accelerating your tossing arm. Try accelerating your arm more gradually and imagine placing the ball up there, it should help with your toss consistency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGWdoNobnCM

See how Roger is much more gradual in the way he accelerates his tossing arm?

canuckfan 12-14-2012 03:39 PM

Good consistency, decent pace, some variety as well. Improvements in technique can definitely be made. Deeper racket drop, more left hip lean into the court. For a kick serve, more of an up and out motion would help generate a better kick. As one poster mentioned, try to remove the "waiter position" -- it robs you of fluidity and power. Just before the racket drop the tip of the racket should be pointed almost straight up (ie. close to 12 o'clock if there was a giant clock standing up on the baseline facing you). Not bad though, don't be discouraged by negative comments, you have positive baseline to start from.

JackB1 12-14-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7063611)
Waiter, feet pinned together, weak serves for such a strong swing......something looks really wrong.
Don't get me wrong, the swing is NOT strong. It's strong only in context to how weak the ball moves.

OK so what do I do?

JackB1 12-14-2012 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckfan (Post 7063646)
Good consistency, decent pace, some variety as well. Improvements in technique can definitely be made. Deeper racket drop, more left hip lean into the court. For a kick serve, more of an up and out motion would help generate a better kick. As one poster mentioned, try to remove the "waiter position" -- it robs you of fluidity and power. Just before the racket drop the tip of the racket should be pointed almost straight up (ie. close to 12 o'clock if there was a giant clock standing up on the baseline facing you). Not bad though, don't be discouraged by negative comments, you have positive baseline to start from.

looks like this "waiter position" should be the 1st thing I work on.
so how do I fix that?

guitarplayer 12-14-2012 04:26 PM

You are accurate! Which is most important. Now you can work on getting more racquet speed. Loosen up, be a little more flexible, a bit bigger backswing. You are close.

JackB1 12-14-2012 05:19 PM

found a great article to help me with my issue

http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step12_4.html

seems like the key is to keep the racquet moving on it's edge for as long as possible.

zapvor 12-16-2012 06:29 PM

thats a nice court! yea so you are kinda trying to copy roddick, but very badly. dont bring your racket back straight up, let it drop down in a loop and then come up. watch federer. also, you take a big pause/hitch before you swing, and when you swing you are really just slapping at the ball. all arm. you gotta make it one fluid motion. start slow. you are muscling the ball right now and its counterproductive

zapvor 12-16-2012 06:33 PM

also: your grip is real flat right now. i know you are going for flat serves in the video, but try shifting more extreme to get more spin. pace can always come later

JackB1 12-16-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapvor (Post 7066712)
thats a nice court! yea so you are kinda trying to copy roddick, but very badly. dont bring your racket back straight up, let it drop down in a loop and then come up. watch federer. also, you take a big pause/hitch before you swing, and when you swing you are really just slapping at the ball. all arm. you gotta make it one fluid motion. start slow. you are muscling the ball right now and its counterproductive

I am not trying to copy Roddick at all...not sure where that came from?

But I agree with your other comments. I am going to try and rebuild my serve so its one continuous motion. Letting it drop down and loop around behind me. I have been watching many instructional videos the past few days and will begin working on it. I already fixed the "palm up/waiter" issue. Now I gotta work on the rest. That's why I took the video...to work on this stuff :-)

JackB1 12-16-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zapvor (Post 7066717)
also: your grip is real flat right now. i know you are going for flat serves in the video, but try shifting more extreme to get more spin. pace can always come later

what do you mean by "flat"? My serve grip is continental. And my serves were not flat...if you watch the ball in the video, it bounces to the left...not straight like a flat serve does. I am slicing the ball.

NLBwell 12-16-2012 07:28 PM

Get a hatchet and chop a log in half.

MikeHitsHard93 12-16-2012 07:30 PM

Serve needs to be more fluid. I believe that it's best never to stop the little forward motion. Before you toss the ball, you point your back toe. Put your body weight actually on that foot and then push off onto your front foot as you're tossing the ball. Right before you hit, all your momentum will be going slightly forward and you should have both feet together, pushing off both toes and rotating. Your stroke and placement are good. Just work on using your whole body into the shot.

zapvor 12-16-2012 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7066736)
I am not trying to copy Roddick at all...not sure where that came from?

But I agree with your other comments. I am going to try and rebuild my serve so its one continuous motion. Letting it drop down and loop around behind me. I have been watching many instructional videos the past few days and will begin working on it. I already fixed the "palm up/waiter" issue. Now I gotta work on the rest. That's why I took the video...to work on this stuff :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7066741)
what do you mean by "flat"? My serve grip is continental. And my serves were not flat...if you watch the ball in the video, it bounces to the left...not straight like a flat serve does. I am slicing the ball.

first off kudos for posting. it shows you are dedicated to improving. so many on here keep talking and never post a video.

ok so you are not copying roddick intentionally, but if you go youtube roddick serve you may get what i am saying. the way you bring your racket hand back, the feet together, the left arm straight up, the more muscling motion.

anyways, yea it looks like you are committed so it will come. it took me over 3yrs to get my serve (search here to see mine) and today i am still tweaking it constantly.

your grip is continental, but not like really. and it does curve with slice but thats more the swing not your grip. i can hit slice with a extreme eastern bh grip. i suggested that, to force you to hit with more spin, taking power from you so you focus on mechanics and not 'the result'.

keep practicing and dont worry about results. it will come.

NLBwell 12-16-2012 09:11 PM

You are pushing the racket.

To get the feeling of how to pull the racket around get a hatchet and chop a log in half.

Focus on pulling the head of the hatchet through - chest, upper arm, elbow, wrist, head of hatchet.
One log should be enough to get the feeling.

charliefedererer 12-17-2012 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackB1 (Post 7063705)
looks like this "waiter position" should be the 1st thing I work on.
so how do I fix that?

Hopefully you will find the following video helpful:
McCraw Serve Fundamentals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuIgTyh4aDs

Coach McCraw has some nice shots from the back showing correct path of the arm/hand/racquet in bringing the racquet to a full racquet drop.

He emphasizes taking the racqeut back and up in an "outside to inside" path.

By bringing the racquet back away from the body ("outside"), it is easier for it to end up on the right side of your body, or "inside".

[Conversely if you bring your racquet up very close to your body, there is a tendency to end up with your hand/racquet more in the middle of your back, or "outside". This would tend to give you racquet drop into the middle of your back - it subsequently is very difficult to pronate if you brought your racquet up from the middle of your back.]


(Later on when you swing upward out of your racquet drop you will want to pronate.
Many don't realize that the racquet/arm at full racquet drop has to be well to the right to set up pronation in the actual swing phase - they mistakenly have the racquet drop in the middle of their back in a "backscratch" position.)



In the above sequence you can see how Sam Stosur's racquet drop is well to the right of her body in pic 1. Notice how the arm is straightened in pics 1-10 keeping the arm well to the right side - this sets up the ability to swing the racquet from right to left to contact in pics 11-19.) )


Once you have the proper racquet drop well to the right of your body, you can then practice this pronation movement as a separate exercise, as demonstrated in this video:
McCraw explaining a serve pronation exercise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONY6fcqZGg






While the above can be worked on as separate shadowing/hitting exercises that can then be incorporated into your serve, you also need to work on how you get your serve started - your "toss into your trophy position move".
[If you don't get off to a proper start, the toss seems rushed, and it is struggle to maintain balance - rather you should smoothly be in balance throughout the toss into the trophy position.]

Tossing and getting into your trophy position must be combined - you should not be tossing - then getting into a trophy position.

And the place to start is using the forward bend into the court to start to build momentum that you can use to get the toss started. (Right now after you step forward, you totally stop before tossing.)



Notice Fed bends forward (pic 1) , and that as he bends his upper body back (pic 2), that automatically gets the arm starting to move up, starting the tossing motion.
He brings his tossing arm straight up in pics 3-4. Having that arm straight up in pic 4 - the trophy position insures he has a very steep shoulder angle - his left shoulder is straight up, and his right shoulder is straight down.
Notice in his trophy position he is in the shape of a bow - that bow is even more accentuated in pic 5.

So getting off to a proper start in a serve is key to having a relaxed balance serve.
Check out the following three videos on how to get that toss into the trophy position:
Tennis Serve Tossing Motion Tempo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZp9...feature=relmfu
Federer Murray Haas & more ball toss common threads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIF-U...eature=related
Tennis Serve Toss - How to Hold the Ball http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8kyn...eature=related
(It is much more comfortable to toss the ball in this way, rather than trying to contort the tossing arm to maintain the hand under the ball as you bring it higher before ball release.)




You noticed yourself that you are falling off to the right.

This is a symptom that you don't cartwheel your shoulders through a vertical plane - instead you are just swinging them from left to right as you uncoil.

But note that the correct shoulder movement is to "drop the left shoulder" so that at contact your tossing shoulder is straight down.

"Dropping the left shoulder" means you are powerfully throwing your body sideways into the court in a "cartwheel" motion.

The forward momentum will end up with you going into the court, landing on your left leg, with your right leg kicking out behind you. (pic11).

"Dropping the left shoulder" corrects the falling off to the right, because now the dominant force is forward with much more power into your shot from that shoulder over shoulder movement.

To top it all off, dropping the left shoulder is protective of your rotator cuff muscles, and can help prevent a shoulder overuse injury as you are doing all that serve practice!

Preventing Rotator Cuff Injury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s




The above is a lot to work on.

While getting a full racquet drop is something you want to achieve, how you get to it smoothly and balanced then can set you up for a better swing with more pronation and a better carthwheel for increased power.

All of it should blend together eventually, even though I hope I've given you some tips on how to work on things individually.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!


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