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-   -   Playing level and missing into the net (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=448701)

dominikk1985 12-20-2012 03:11 PM

Playing level and missing into the net
 
I'm not sure if there is something to it but too me it looks like pros almost never miss a ball into the net. they will hit one long and especially miss the sideline but very rarely even hit the net cord, let alone the net.

on the other hand those very good college players:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-EHF9jLXTM

seem to miss quite a few balls into the net, especially when they go for winners (especially the red haired guy in the video).

on the other hand with the pros you see that much less:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC2qcfnTP-g

Of course I understand that pros are more precise in general and tend to make less overall errors but I think even if you normalize for the same errors pros will miss less in the net.

why is that? does it have to do with better footwork and balance?

5263 12-20-2012 03:34 PM

I expect it is because most pro shots are being lifted and driven, getting good
topspin from big lift from the legs, instead of
rec player shots that are often just driven stepping forward at times.

Bergboy123 12-20-2012 03:56 PM

I've heard that it's better to miss long/wide than in the net, probably some connection to this. I also know it feels better to miss long/wide than to dump one in the bottom of the net :D

sureshs 12-20-2012 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7072739)
I expect it is because most pro shots are being lifted and driven, getting good
topspin from big lift from the legs, instead of
rec player shots that are often just driven stepping forward at times.

He mentioned "very good college players."

slowfox 12-20-2012 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bergboy123 (Post 7072758)
I've heard that it's better to miss long/wide than in the net, probably some connection to this. I also know it feels better to miss long/wide than to dump one in the bottom of the net :D

Gotta do two things with each ball:
1. Get it over the net.
2. Get it in the court.

With the exception of them crazy around the net post passing shots, just getting the ball over the net is half the battle. Even if you hit it long, it's still 1 outta 2... :)

NLBwell 12-20-2012 09:42 PM

Very good college players tend to be less patient than pros.

5263 12-21-2012 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7072843)
He mentioned "very good college players."

yes, I realize that, but I mentioned it this way by talking about each end of
the spectrum. The college players will tend to have aspects of both groups
even when they are quite good, and will likely make some of the same errors
as some rec players.

treblings 12-21-2012 11:30 AM

i heard an interview with Janko Tipsarevic where he stated, that the top pros clear the net higher than say youngsters at the futures level, who tend to hit as hard but generally lower over the net.

tlm 12-21-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 7073165)
Very good college players tend to be less patient than pros.

And they are trying to blast flatter winner type shots more often.

Wegner 12-21-2012 03:33 PM

Height over the net
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by treblings (Post 7073834)
i heard an interview with Janko Tipsarevic where he stated, that the top pros clear the net higher than say youngsters at the futures level, who tend to hit as hard but generally lower over the net.

Yes, Treblings. If you sit at court level in a good pro match near the net, you'll see the ball clearing the net by two, three feet or more. It's the topspin that brings the ball down. Most pros hit close to 2,000 RPM on groundstrokes. Rafa Nadal over 3,000 RPM.

WildVolley 12-21-2012 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treblings (Post 7073834)
i heard an interview with Janko Tipsarevic where he stated, that the top pros clear the net higher than say youngsters at the futures level, who tend to hit as hard but generally lower over the net.

I heard him say it on this video where he's giving advice to a former Junior Wimbledon champion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AULbt7ZjcU

The examples the OP gave with video are I think a little misleading because more net clearance is normally hit on clay.

But there is probably a lot of truth the the claim that the bigger shots of the top 100 pros today are hit with more topspin than even among good college players. That would tend to mean fewer misses into the net along with more overall consistency. Overall consistency is probably a big factor, even among the wild top 50 players like Tsonga and Dolgopolov.

treblings 12-21-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 7074140)
I heard him say it on this video where he's giving advice to a former Junior Wimbledon champion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AULbt7ZjcU

The examples the OP gave with video are I think a little misleading because more net clearance is normally hit on clay.

But there is probably a lot of truth the the claim that the bigger shots of the top 100 pros today are hit with more topspin than even among good college players. That would tend to mean fewer misses into the net along with more overall consistency. Overall consistency is probably a big factor, even among the wild top 50 players like Tsonga and Dolgopolov.

thanks for posting that link:) thatīs exactly where i heard it

treblings 12-21-2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wegner (Post 7074126)
Yes, Treblings. If you sit at court level in a good pro match near the net, you'll see the ball clearing the net by two, three feet or more. It's the topspin that brings the ball down. Most pros hit close to 2,000 RPM on groundstrokes. Rafa Nadal over 3,000 RPM.

i had the pleasure to sit courtside at pro tournaments and watch many top pros over the decades.
what i find interesting about Tipsarevic comment, is that he thinks younger pros with lower rankings hit with less net clearance/topspin. i always thought that hitting wih topspin would be one of the first things that coaches would develop in their players from a young age on. that it was a priority to learn.

sureshs 12-22-2012 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7073818)
yes, I realize that, but I mentioned it this way by talking about each end of
the spectrum. The college players will tend to have aspects of both groups
even when they are quite good, and will likely make some of the same errors
as some rec players.

Once again, it is not "college players" but "very good college players."

The difference is that many rec players with high net clearance get it by moonballing or mini lobs. It is quite different from getting it by aggressive top spin, which also has a large forward momentum. Quite a different beast altogether.

Very good college players do not really have anything in common with rec players. The gulf is huge. If you think that D1 players are like rec players, you are completely wrong.

5263 12-23-2012 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7075129)

Very good college players do not really have anything in common with rec players. The gulf is huge. If you think that D1 players are like rec players, you are completely wrong.

Given that I've played many, coached several, and raised 2 D1 college players, I expect that
I know quite a bit about D1 players as well as other levels.
D1 players actually make many mistakes that are similar to rec players, even
though usually their competitive level is much higher than most rec players.
This OP is an excellent example.
College players is inclusive of "very good college players" just so you know.

sureshs 12-23-2012 08:58 PM

Examples of D1 players are Isner, Bryans and Somdev. They do not play like rec players.

5263 12-23-2012 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sureshs (Post 7077035)
Examples of D1 players are Isner, Bryans and Somdev. They do not play like rec players.

Isner is a top pro now and still makes many of the same errors that rec players
make :)

ATP100 12-24-2012 04:49 AM

I have been telling people to hit higher for years.

tlm 12-24-2012 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7077038)
Isner is a top pro now and still makes many of the same errors that rec players
make :)

There is a lot of truth to what you are saying. I have noticed that as much as the pro players are different from rec players, they also make a lot of the same mistakes when they are under pressure just like a rec player does.

As in playing it to safe when trying to close out a match, not getting first serves in when they need to the most. Making silly errors when their opponent is playing badly instead of keeping the ball in the court.

WildVolley 12-24-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7077038)
Isner is a top pro now and still makes many of the same errors that rec players
make :)

That's true. But most rec players aren't almost 7' tall and able to easily hit a 135mph serve into the corners.


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