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-   -   At their best, who would win? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=449102)

Graphiteking 12-26-2012 01:53 PM

At their best, who would win?
 
The question speaks for itself. Men's and Women's. At the height of their careers out of all the players, who would win? One match, on hardcourt. Men's winner? Women's winner?

forzamilan90 12-26-2012 01:56 PM

Roger Federer and Serena Williams

pc1 12-26-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphiteking (Post 7080400)
The question speaks for itself. Men's and Women's. At the height of their careers out of all the players, who would win? One match, on hardcourt. Men's winner? Women's winner?

Excluding the present players there has been a lot of support for Lew Hoad, Ellsworth Vines, Rod Laver, Pancho Gonzalez and Bill Tilden.

Others who have been mentioned has been Frank Kovacs, John McEnroe and Bjorn Borg.

I like what Riggs said about Pancho Gonzalez, it was something like if you had them all play matches and the loser would die. In a situation like that Pancho Gonzalez may turn out to be the ultimate winner.

I know a number of people like Bud Collins and Jimmy Connors have said if they had a match for someone to play for their life, they would pick Pancho Gonzalez.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd0gJzm_EQY

Phoenix1983 12-26-2012 02:01 PM

Men: Sampras or Federer

Women: Serena

ARFED 12-26-2012 02:18 PM

Women: Serena, only Graff could make a competitive match, she would be straight setted nonetheless (something like 6-4 7-6).

Men: Slow high bouncing hard- Federer, Djokovic, Agassi, Laver
Fast low bouncing hard- Sampras, Federer, Gonzalez

pc1 12-26-2012 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARFED (Post 7080431)
Women: Serena, only Graff could make a competitive match, she would be straight setted nonetheless (something like 6-4 7-6).

Men: Slow high bouncing hard- Federer, Djokovic, Agassi, Laver
Fast low bouncing hard- Sampras, Federer, Gonzalez

I would go with Serena also because I think she's the most gifted female player I've ever seen. I think even with wood she would have adapted. I think she would be unbelievable. On serve alone she would be great and I think she has the greatest women's serve I've ever seen.

NadalAgassi 12-26-2012 03:43 PM

Women- Serena wins on all but clay. On clay Graf or Seles wins (I think Evert is the greatest clay courter ever, but she would not win in an all peak playing match).

Men- On grass Sampras wins, on fast hard courts Laver wins (he didnt get to play much on it, but with his overall game he would be near unbeatable that type of court on a peak day), on carpet Becker or Sampras wins, on rebound ace Djokovic wins, on clay Nadal wins.

Graphiteking 12-26-2012 04:15 PM

Serena for sure in women's. It's a toss up with men. So many athletes. Fed or Sampras get my vote on hardcourt.

helloworld 12-26-2012 04:55 PM

Fast hard court: Sampras.
Slow hard court: Djokovic.

pc1 12-26-2012 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NadalAgassi (Post 7080519)
Women- Serena wins on all but clay. On clay Graf or Seles wins (I think Evert is the greatest clay courter ever, but she would not win in an all peak playing match).

Men- On grass Sampras wins, on fast hard courts Laver wins (he didnt get to play much on it, but with his overall game he would be near unbeatable that type of court on a peak day), on carpet Becker or Sampras wins, on rebound ace Djokovic wins, on clay Nadal wins.

I don't know if that's true (the words I put in bold) but I like the thought behind it. I think you could be right as far as Evert is concerned. Serena isn't exactly bad on clay however so I wouldn't necessarily rule her out.

I may put Henin there for clay also.

90's Clay 12-26-2012 05:25 PM

Peak for peak considering everyone and every surface.

Slow hardcourts- Agassi or Djokovic (Rebound Ace if it was Andre. He was the best ever on that surface IMO.. Plenty of material to look at 1995 or 2000 AO)
Fast Grass-Sampras or Pancho
Slow Grass-Nadal or Federer (Though I'm sure Laver would have his chances)
Clay-2008 Nadal or 1995 Muster (The two highest levels Ive ever seen on clay)
Fast Hardcourts-Sampras or Federer or Connors (I can't really choose between these three here.)
Indoors-Sampras, Federer or Becker (Too close to call respecting all three's peaks)

TomT 12-26-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphiteking (Post 7080400)
The question speaks for itself. Men's and Women's. At the height of their careers out of all the players, who would win? One match, on hardcourt. Men's winner? Women's winner?

This is a really hard choice, but on hardcourt, then I think Serena Williams and Roger Federer are the most impressive, ie., and the best, players I've seen on that surface.

Headshotterer 12-26-2012 05:29 PM

LMFAO. Nadal would **** Sampras.

90's Clay 12-26-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headshotterer (Post 7080629)
LMFAO. Nadal would **** Sampras.

On what outside of clay?

helloworld 12-26-2012 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90's Clay (Post 7080623)
Peak for peak considering everyone and every surface.

Slow hardcourts- Agassi or Djokovic (Rebound Ace if it was Andre. He was the best ever on that surface IMO.. Plenty of material to look at 1995 or 2000 AO)
Fast Grass-Sampras or Pancho
Slow Grass-Nadal or Federer (Though I'm sure Laver would have his chances)
Clay-2008 Nadal or 1995 Muster (The two highest levels Ive ever seen on clay)
Fast Hardcourts-Sampras or Federer or Connors (I can't really choose between these three here.)
Indoors-Sampras, Federer or Becker

Agree to all, except slow grass. Sampras would still be the favorite over Nadal on any type of grass.

90's Clay 12-26-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloworld (Post 7080639)
Agree to all, except slow grass. Sampras would still be the favorite over Nadal on any type of grass.

That could be true.. Sampras may have been King on slow grass at wimbledon as well regardless of how much they sodded it to the moon.. In hindsight, I don't know since we didn't see a prime Sampras play on slow grass on the big stage

jaggy 12-26-2012 05:57 PM

At his best McEnroe on the mens side for me, Graf probably on the womens although Serena has a good shout

NadalAgassi 12-26-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pc1 (Post 7080600)
I don't know if that's true (the words I put in bold) but I like the thought behind it. I think you could be right as far as Evert is concerned. Serena isn't exactly bad on clay however so I wouldn't necessarily rule her out.

I may put Henin there for clay also.

Just a single peak playing match on clay (not an all time rankings list of greatest clay courters) would be a tough call between Graf, Seles, Henin, and Evert, but I think Graf and Seles would both be bad matchups for Evert at their mutual best on clay. Graf is just a horrible matchup for Evert in general IMO, even though Evert never got to play a prime Graf at her best, it was not a good matchup for her. Graf was easily fast enough to counter Evert's great court maneuvering and tactical point construction, could easily overpower Evert with her serve, forehand, and even net game, and could even outlast Evert in long rallies as Evert was forced into far more unforced errors in her matches with Graf than she made vs anyone else (even though losing some of her patience with age was no doubt part of that, and would be less with a younger Evert). I actually think Evert would be a bad matchup for Seles on faster courts, especialy as Evert is like a better version of Hingis, but on slower courts I think a prime Seles would be a nightmare for her. She just doesnt have enough power to get Seles on the defensive without the help of a faster court (the Seles of old who had decent mobility, great anticipation, and great depth consistently, not the one Hingis faced), and if you cant do that vs Seles you cant hurt her in her prime. It is hard to know exactly how a peak Henin vs peak Graf, peak Henin vs peak Seles, or peak Henin vs peak Evert match on clay would go, as she doesnt play exactly like any of those players, and there are really no matches to go by. I already saw enough from when their careers crossed to know without seeing them play prime to prime that Seles was a bad matchup for her on hard courts or carpet, but grass or clay prime to prime would be interesting as pre prime Henin did atleast convincingly beat old Seles on those surfaces when they met.

Actually even though Serena probably isnt even top 20 all time on clay, in a peak on peak match she could definitely be right in there with anyone too, as when she plays at her very best like in Charleston and Madrid this year, and like some matches at Rome and Roland Garros 2002, she can be scary great, even on clay. She just rarely produces her very peak form on clay, even in her peak years, let alone outside of them.

Graphiteking 12-26-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headshotterer (Post 7080629)
LMFAO. Nadal would **** Sampras.

Is this a joke? Nadal get way to much credit. On clay he's a surgeon with a racquet, but on other surfaces he's vonarable.

NadalAgassi 12-26-2012 07:01 PM

Sampras is the ultimate bad matchup for Nadal, he is about 10 times a worse matchup than Federer is for Nadal (well Federer of course isnt a bad matchup for Nadal at all, if they played on grass anymore since 2008 Federer would have a losing record on all 3 major slams surfaces by now). Peak to peak Sampras kills Nadal on all but clay.


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