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gplracer 12-27-2012 06:21 PM

Video at tournaments
 
I was about to put my gopro up at a usta jr. tournament when I was told no video tapping. The td told me there is a lawsuit. Anyone hear news of this?

tenacitytennis 12-27-2012 07:15 PM

Ive heard this from some but seen some record still... what section are you in as I heard about this in the Eastern section?

lala28m 12-27-2012 11:39 PM

I've been wondering about this. If it's a public venue and logic say you can record your kid playing in a band or a baseball game, etc, what's the difference with a USTA tennis match. I have heard of parents recording and the other child parents complaining and shutting it down. Whats the deal? What are the rules on this?

gplracer 12-28-2012 04:45 AM

This was in the southern section (Georgia).

OneTennisParent 12-28-2012 07:19 AM

Again, I apologize for the length of this post. This subject has been a sore spot for me for years.

I pushed this issue in my section, and all the way up to White Plains legal dept. Their decision, predictably, is to defer to the complainers. You can put your camera up, but if anyone complains, you have to take it down. I asked the USTA to make a decision either allowing any parent to video their own kid's match, or deny all video. They would never ban all video since they derive a profit from the video of national championships, so I was hopeful they would do the right thing and allow us to video to make our players better, thus advancing the sport as a whole.

They came back with ridiculous rationale for limiting our right to film our own kids with things such as "what if there is an objection on religious grounds?" Really? Its a voluntary event, in mostly public venues. If you don't want to participate you don't have to. What if my opponent objects to tennis attire on religious grounds? Do I have to clothe my player in a burka to satisfy them?

Every football, soccer, and baseball game is filled with parents filming the game, but tennis is different? Why? There is no law prohibiting the filming of minors with or without their parent's permission as long as you do not disclose any personal information about them, or otherwise defame them. You don't have to ask everyone's permission when you take a video or picture at Disney do you? Or the beach, or at any group event.

The USTA is afraid of being sued by the whiners. We who only want to help our player improve are unlikely to cause a stink, so we are kicked to the curb.

Ever notice that to participate in national championships you have to sign a release allowing the USTA to video or take pictures of your player, or you can't play? But they won't extend that right to you taking video of your own kid.

Some psychotic parents think that you will use the tape to gain an advantage over their player. Please. I have so much to work on with my player, I don't have time to worry about theirs. I am not trying to video their player. I am taping mine. It is unfortunate that theirs keeps getting in the frame.

All the USTA would have to do is put it in the Code that you can tape your own player. There are already laws that apply to misuse of video of minors. The USTA doesn't have to do anything but allow you to live within the existing laws, but they won't.

If any of you know a tennis enthusiast who is also a lawyer, perhaps they could file a suit on our behalf asserting that our first amendment rights are being infringed.

Number1Coach 12-28-2012 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gplracer (Post 7082119)
I was about to put my gopro up at a usta jr. tournament when I was told no video tapping. The td told me there is a lawsuit. Anyone hear news of this?

I would have told the TD to kiss my #ss as I have done before and continued to video tape , would have insisted on the police being called only to bring up Rodney King and then let the police explain to the TD "a non lawyer" that its not against the law !!! the TD wont want the police involved and you will be ok to use your camera which is ok still in this country .BTW maybe at a private club there could be a prob but if they open the doors to the public for and event then things can change .

Number1Coach 12-28-2012 07:31 AM

btw this is another reason why tennis is dying !!!

BMC9670 12-28-2012 07:50 AM

I would think the USTA would favor it, maybe being on film would deter some of the cheating.

coaching32yrs 12-28-2012 08:00 AM

The USTA's answer is the right one. You can film as along as there is no objection. Who would object? The only possiblity is the opponent. Whatever the opponent's reason for objecting in the interest of decency and "getting along" just don't film that day. Most tennis parents will not object. I have seen parents filming and the thought of someone objecting never even occured to me.

arche3 12-28-2012 08:24 AM

You can also offer a copy of the video to the opponent. Might make a complaining parent a willing one.

Tennishacker 12-28-2012 08:48 AM

I don't have problems when I know for sure that it's my child's opponents parent video taping.

Having a daughter, there have been many times when there are creepy looking guys photographing/video taping random matches at tournaments.

I once confronted a guy photographing my daughter as to who he was, he stammered and said "I'm a trainer", yea right.

lala28m 12-28-2012 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennishacker (Post 7082976)
I don't have problems when I know for sure that it's my child's opponents parent video taping.

Having a daughter, there have been many times when there are creepy looking guys photographing/video taping random matches at tournaments.

I once confronted a guy photographing my daughter as to who he was, he stammered and said "I'm a trainer", yea right.

I think it's usually pretty easy to discern who your opponents' camp and parents are.
But..Wow. Beyond creepy. I've had that happen to me with a stranger in a park-setting tennis match (him trying to photograph me, an adult female), but never thought to look out for this at a kids tourney. You just walk around assuming everyone is a parent, coach or a tennis official. Sometimes it boggles your mind how much more depraved this world is than your brain can even begin to imagine. Something new to to look out for and worry about...

Number1Coach 12-28-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennishacker (Post 7082976)
I don't have problems when I know for sure that it's my child's opponents parent video taping.

Having a daughter, there have been many times when there are creepy looking guys photographing/video taping random matches at tournaments.

I once confronted a guy photographing my daughter as to who he was, he stammered and said "I'm a trainer", yea right.

i would have stammered him into a choke-out

coaching32yrs 12-28-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number1Coach (Post 7083595)
i would have stammered him into a choke-out

Coach: How did you become a tennis parent? Most of the tough crazy guys from my neighberhood are either dead or in jail. The real crazy ones became cops. You must have been a cop.

Misterbill 12-28-2012 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lala28m (Post 7083362)
I think it's usually pretty easy to discern who your opponents' camp and parents are.
But..Wow. Beyond creepy. I've had that happen to me with a stranger in a park-setting tennis match (him trying to photograph me, an adult female), but never thought to look out for this at a kids tourney. You just walk around assuming everyone is a parent, coach or a tennis official. Sometimes it boggles your mind how much more depraved this world is than your brain can even begin to imagine. Something new to to look out for and worry about...

Real creepy.

In fact there was a poster on this forum who was threatening to roam around S Fla to find a particular 8 year old girl and take a video of her against the stated wishes...on this forum....of her parent. The post was left up for a while but maybe it has been deleted now.

Regular visitors to the forum will know I am speaking the truth

lala28m 12-29-2012 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misterbill (Post 7084405)
Real creepy.

In fact there was a poster on this forum who was threatening to roam around S Fla to find a particular 8 year old girl and take a video of her against the stated wishes...on this forum....of her parent. The post was left up for a while but maybe it has been deleted now.

Regular visitors to the forum will know I am speaking the truth

Umm. Yes, it was taken down. I think it was the same thread in which the said parent offered to set up a fight with third poster (who claimed to be female) to settle whatever issues (there were many) were flying back and forth in that particular thread. All of it was childish and out of hand, honestly... The whole thread was craziness. None of the featured parents exhibited model behavior, but I strongly disagree with what you are insinuating.

Child predation is a real and serious societal and personal tragedy. Bringing it up just to throw fighting words or digs at someone does a disgrace to actual victims. Not cool.

From what I can remember, the only obsessions any posters had in that thread were with each other. Poster#1 bragged about his (not tournament tested) tennis prodigy, (while several others kept explaining the benefits of tournaments, rankings etc), and poster#2, a (recognized) parent of a ranked junior, took to heart the slamming of his own kid's life work (tournaments, points, rankings, wins etc) basically said "put your money where your mouth is". At face value, the gist was disproving the first posters repeated claims of a secret child tennis prodigy, and not much else.

No, the 2nd poster should not have said he was tracking anyone down, to prove or disprove secret talent, magical powers,...any reason. Obviously, over the line. But the two guys were in, what equates to, a fist fight or a you-know-what measuring contest...of each other. I'm sure the thread was taken down for numerous good reasons. But "over-the-line" does not automatically mean "child creeper". Both posters made many over-the-line comments. (Personally, when poster#1, the allegedly grievenced here, made comments about a different little girl's looks, it made me very, very uncomfortable. Pointing out why she can't possibly have a sponsorship, based on this and that in her looks. He admitted having zero information, his remarks were "educated observances". Tops it off with how his own kid does have the look. Horrible. The only thing that stopped me from defending an obviously super cute kid, is my mantra "Can't argue with stupid"). But neither of these 2 were banned, so your insinuation about the motives of one of them cannot be true or are not as obvious as you suggest. At least, not to me nor to the administrators of this forum.

It is one thing to disagree with other posters, and obviously poster#1 +poster#2 have had an axe to grind with each other for probably longer than grown adults should, but lets be honest, that's a tough accusation you are slinging. There are real victims of abuse out there whose plight and cause is being watered down by such frivolous use of this serious accusation.

Misterbill 12-29-2012 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lala28m (Post 7084720)
Umm. Yes, it was taken down. I think it was the same thread in which the said parent offered to set up a fight with third poster (who claimed to be female) to settle whatever issues (there were many) were flying back and forth in that particular thread. All of it was childish and out of hand, honestly... The whole thread was craziness. None of the featured parents exhibited model behavior, but I strongly disagree with what you are insinuating.

Child predation is a real and serious societal and personal tragedy. Bringing it up just to throw fighting words or digs at someone does a disgrace to actual victims. Not cool.

From what I can remember, the only obsessions any posters had in that thread were with each other. Poster#1 bragged about his (not tournament tested) tennis prodigy, (while several others kept explaining the benefits of tournaments, rankings etc), and poster#2, a (recognized) parent of a ranked junior, took to heart the slamming of his own kid's life work (tournaments, points, rankings, wins etc) basically said "put your money where your mouth is". At face value, the gist was disproving the first posters repeated claims of a secret child tennis prodigy, and not much else.

No, the 2nd poster should not have said he was tracking anyone down, to prove or disprove secret talent, magical powers,...any reason. Obviously, over the line. But the two guys were in, what equates to, a fist fight or a you-know-what measuring contest...of each other. I'm sure the thread was taken down for numerous good reasons. But "over-the-line" does not automatically mean "child creeper". Both posters made many over-the-line comments. (Personally, when poster#1, the allegedly grievenced here, made comments about a different little girl's looks, it made me very, very uncomfortable. Pointing out why she can't possibly have a sponsorship, based on this and that in her looks. He admitted having zero information, his remarks were "educated observances". Tops it off with how his own kid does have the look. Horrible. The only thing that stopped me from defending an obviously super cute kid, is my mantra "Can't argue with stupid"). But neither of these 2 were banned, so your insinuation about the motives of one of them cannot be true or are not as obvious as you suggest. At least, not to me nor to the administrators of this forum.

It is one thing to disagree with other posters, and obviously poster#1 +poster#2 have had an axe to grind with each other for probably longer than grown adults should, but lets be honest, that's a tough accusation you are slinging. There are real victims of abuse out there whose plight and cause is being watered down by such frivolous use of this serious accusation.

Nice recitation. But I'm sticking with my accusation:

Real creepy.

TCF 12-29-2012 07:40 AM

=================

Misterbill 12-29-2012 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TCF (Post 7085040)
Notice the rehash of the past conveniently left out the part where it was said the other posters child would end up a street walker, which was way past any line any of us ever approached.

Yup. Thought I covered that base here, but it is in the Orange Bowl thread.

Bottom line: I think all that stuff from the other poster was real creepy. Lala does not.

lala28m 12-29-2012 11:42 AM

I admit, I do not remember the street walker part. If my memory is lacking in that respect, my apologies, clearly an inappropriate comment, no matter who the parent(s). Not appropriate. Nothing in that thread was appropriate. It was a kid bashing catastrophe.

I, respectfully, maintain that the 2 posters were both throwing digs at each other, both kept bringing each others kids up within the argument. Obviously, this will NEVER lead to anywhere good. Maybe a lesson to be learned??

At least these parents were there to defend their own kids...what grabbed my attention from the get-go were the comments about the (not sufficiently good enough) looks of an 11yo CHILD... A GIRL. What can you be thinking when you write that?? This was obviously a gloves-off fighting kind of guy. I didn't engage, but am I surprised that someone did? No, I'm not.

So if you want to ask me about what I find creepy from that thread, I can make you long a list. But neither guy will come out looking very good. Point is, you can't cry foul if you started (the dirty) fighting. Hard to feel bad for either guy. At the same time, I have only been following for a few months, so I can't speak for what has happened in the apparent years of this back and forth.

I thought this was a forum was about tennis and how to take notes from each other about how to better our kids. Not bash each others kids. Of course, all of them need improvement, they are children.

Lastly, not to get personal, but let's say for the sake of argument, that myself or someone close to me, was a victim of child predation. It is an actual tragedy that too many children endure. Let's not involve real victims, real crimes and compare them to this silly back and forth argument.

A lot of the comments were beyond stupid, but there is little evidence that anyone had motives to abuse children. And like I pointed out, the forum administrators, who are in some way responsible for fairness and legality here, did come to the same conclusion. It's a silly Internet argument, that's it. Let's get over it and try to be more respectful of each other and our children going forward. Lesson learned, for some...


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