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-   -   How good is McEnroe still? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=449233)

Surecatch 12-28-2012 07:26 AM

How good is McEnroe still?
 
I watched him play in the old fellas' tournament on TV last night against Agassi and then Rafter and was pretty impressed at his skill level for being well into his fifties now. I really hadn't seen him play much since his tour days, other than youtube clips but looked like he hit harder than in his youth, which isn't surprising given advances in racquets, etc. He's naturally a little slower but still seems very accurate with his defense, especially considering his opponents also hit harder than back in the day.

What would his USTA level be? Could he compete on the ATP tour still? Would he smoke Serena?

goran_ace 12-28-2012 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surecatch (Post 7082761)
What would his USTA level be? Could he compete on the ATP tour still? Would he smoke Serena?

1.) Irrelevant. He would destroy any 5.0 player out there and NTRPs above 5.0 are purely academic.

2.) No way. He might take a match here or there but his body would not hold up for a whole tournament.

3.) No. She'd win the physical battle.

treblings 12-28-2012 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goran_ace (Post 7082811)
1.) Irrelevant. He would destroy any 5.0 player out there and NTRPs above 5.0 are purely academic.

2.) No way. He might take a match here or there but his body would not hold up for a whole tournament.

3.) No. She'd win the physical battle.

totally agree with your points. im not sure McEnroe would agree with your point no.3:)

Alchemy-Z 12-28-2012 07:48 AM

I bet he and a current ATP pro could go deep in doubles at a tournament.

Surecatch 12-28-2012 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goran_ace (Post 7082811)
1.) Irrelevant. He would destroy any 5.0 player out there and NTRPs above 5.0 are purely academic.

2.) No way. He might take a match here or there but his body would not hold up for a whole tournament.

3.) No. She'd win the physical battle.

This is pretty much what I'd have guessed but you guys know much better than I.

slowfox 12-28-2012 08:13 AM

Mac's game always seem kinda low impact i.e. easy on the body. Not sure but perhaps he's been rather injury free most of his career. Hence, still able to play at a high level even now.

dominikk1985 12-28-2012 08:14 AM

he is still tremendously good for his age (at least 5.5 more likely 6.0) but I'm not sure if the other guys are taking it easy on him.

I mean they are 10-15 years younger then him so they might just not want to destroy him.

NLBwell 12-28-2012 09:17 AM

Thomas Muster came back to play Challengers after getting terribly out of shape and actually won a couple of matches and many of the matches were very competitive. Of course, that is at a level far higher than any woman, including Serena, plays. She probably wouldn't get more than a game or two if the Challenger guy relaxed a lot. Similarly, she would barely get a game from guys like Sampras or Rafter on the old guys tour. McEnroe is 8 years older than Muster and still plays a very high level of tennis, but even watching the tour on TV, I can tell he isn't as good as a few years ago. His game can still be mystifying, even to the former greats though, if he is playing well.
All in all, I'd say he'd still beat any woman pretty easily.

Tennishacker 12-28-2012 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy-Z (Post 7082825)
I bet he and a current ATP pro could go deep in doubles at a tournament.

Several years ago he won a ATP doubles tournament in Sacramento.

Quite impressive for someone in their 50's.

Topspin_80 12-28-2012 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennishacker (Post 7083041)
Several years ago he won a ATP doubles tournament in Sacramento.

Quite impressive for someone in their 50's.

He was 47 when he won that doubles tourny .

helloworld 12-28-2012 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surecatch (Post 7082761)
I watched him play in the old fellas' tournament on TV last night against Agassi and then Rafter and was pretty impressed at his skill level for being well into his fifties now. I really hadn't seen him play much since his tour days, other than youtube clips but looked like he hit harder than in his youth, which isn't surprising given advances in racquets, etc. He's naturally a little slower but still seems very accurate with his defense, especially considering his opponents also hit harder than back in the day.

What would his USTA level be? Could he compete on the ATP tour still? Would he smoke Serena?

Uhh.. Serena has no chance against one of the best men's tennis player of all time.

Surecatch 12-28-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloworld (Post 7083099)
Uhh.. Serena has no chance against one of the best men's tennis player of all time.

It's an interesting question. I really don't know and that's why I'm asking. I do know that the women's game doesn't stand a chance against the men's game. But Mac' is in his fifties and so it's a fair question. Personally, I think it would be very close. I think Mac' would pull out front early but might wear down in a second set due to age and Serena could pull it out.

But I really don't know. It's a fascinating question. I'm just really impressed with John's skills at this stage in his life. Forty-three is essentially way over the hill for tennis players, and we aren't even talking about that. We are talking about another ten years gone by.

2ndServe 12-28-2012 10:19 AM

I agree Serena has no chance. Her pace would not bother him one bit. He has to be still a 7.0 or whatever the highest rating. I see no holes in his game or lack of speed. He is as good or better than the guys playing on the futures tours. Moves really well for being 50, still very light on his feet.

At Indian Wells one of the lower ranked girls had my friend be a hitting partner. He teaches now so he doesn't play. He said just rallying they were 50/50. But when he served he had to take a lot spin off to give her a more realistic shot. He couldn't straight blast a serve by her too much but if she had to honor his angle spin serves the bigger T serve got him a very attackable ball. He also had very little trouble with her serve.

This summer in socal I saw some friends play a doubles match with some guy I've never heard of from croatia who was ~ #200 in the world 8+ years ago. I actually thought they sorta could hang with him off the ground. But the guy served so big 120+ with mega spin. 1st, 2nd serve aces, he was whacking back 1st serve returns like they were sitters and his movement he got to great drop volleys like they were nothing.

If you ever seen top men at court level you realize you have almost no shot at making a good return. If you somehow get it over it gets crushed. If you get lucky to hit a good shot (your good shot is a sitter to them) they are so fast they seem to be waiting for it to crush. The court coverage between a top woman and top man/ex top man/ex top 300 is night and day.

Surecatch 12-28-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndServe (Post 7083162)
I agree Serena has no chance. Her pace would not bother him one bit. He has to be still a 7.0 or whatever the highest rating. I see no holes in his game or lack of speed. He is as good or better than the guys playing on the futures tours. Moves really well for being 50, still very light on his feet.

Yep. I don't know about the Serena part but the rest is spot on as I saw it. He was brutalizing Agassi for awhile. Andre got it together but still lost to John. Then Rafter beat him, but still...

BobbyOne 12-28-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLBwell (Post 7083037)
Thomas Muster came back to play Challengers after getting terribly out of shape and actually won a couple of matches and many of the matches were very competitive. Of course, that is at a level far higher than any woman, including Serena, plays. She probably wouldn't get more than a game or two if the Challenger guy relaxed a lot. Similarly, she would barely get a game from guys like Sampras or Rafter on the old guys tour. McEnroe is 8 years older than Muster and still plays a very high level of tennis, but even watching the tour on TV, I can tell he isn't as good as a few years ago. His game can still be mystifying, even to the former greats though, if he is playing well.
All in all, I'd say he'd still beat any woman pretty easily.

NLBwell, Muster on his comeback trail was mostly defeated clearly. McEnroe, given he was of same age, would have done better because he is a genius and Muster not. Also Borg failed terribly on his comeback trail.

Volley123 12-28-2012 12:12 PM

The more sanguine question is Serena can take Mac in a UFC match

hoodjem 12-28-2012 12:55 PM

Probably the best 50+-year-old player in the world.

hoodjem 12-28-2012 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volley123 (Post 7083407)
The more sanguine question is Serena can take Mac in a UFC match

All she'd have to do is sit on him.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...-or-offensive/

jrepac 12-28-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloworld (Post 7083099)
Uhh.. Serena has no chance against one of the best men's tennis player of all time.

No, I don't think Serena would win against Mac....he'd still have a bit too much game for her. Plus, it's a game she's not all that used to seeing.

NLBwell 12-28-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyOne (Post 7083332)
NLBwell, Muster on his comeback trail was mostly defeated clearly. McEnroe, given he was of same age, would have done better because he is a genius and Muster not. Also Borg failed terribly on his comebacktrail.

He lost in 3 sets 7 times and won 2 times out of 27 matches. So at least 1/3rd of the time, he was very competitive at the Challenger level.
Not bad for an old guy whose game is based on dominating the other player physically.
Of course McEnroe's game translates better to being old.


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