Talk Tennis

Talk Tennis (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php)
-   Tennis Tips/Instruction (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   how to gauge serve potential? (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=449788)

luvforty 01-03-2013 04:53 PM

how to gauge serve potential?
 
don't we recs all wish to have a bomb of serve, but on the other hand we all know there is a limit and we'll never serve 120.... but where is the limit?

age, gender, body type, flexibility, too many variables...

but is there a way to estimate, (with perfect technique) where the limit is?

something like, if I can throw a baseball 50 yards, I should be able to serve 95mph.

user92626 01-03-2013 05:34 PM

I think the first and foremost limitation is technique. This is easy to verify since most of us have seen the aged, the out of shaped and women serving bombs.

So forget all those "variables". Focus on technique. However, this area alone is quite murky and tricky enough in that you can't clearly see the line between technique and your potential. I mean, for example, I think I have a relatively sound technique but the serve is still slow. I dunno it's my technique or my strength.

dlesser13 01-03-2013 05:58 PM

A live arm will take you a long way, all technique aside. I feel bad for people who just can't seem to generate any RHS. You can have the best technique/load in the world, but it doesn't mean a whole lot if you can't generate some RHS to boot.

luvforty 01-03-2013 06:08 PM

yeah, I am afraid that I am one of those dead arm people......

it's like a patient who really wants to know from his doctor, how bad it is lol

CoachingMastery 01-03-2013 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlesser13 (Post 7095986)
A live arm will take you a long way, all technique aside. I feel bad for people who just can't seem to generate any RHS. You can have the best technique/load in the world, but it doesn't mean a whole lot if you can't generate some RHS to boot.

Yes, but you can have great RHS but if you have poor technique, you won't be able to take advantage of that great RHS because you won't get too many serves in.

The best bet for anyone to reach their serve potential is to learn the right grip, swing path, body position, footwork positions, etc., learn these so they are familiar and mastered...then if they have--or can develop--RHS, they will have a great serve.

the hack 01-03-2013 07:33 PM

Welby van Horn, one of the best coaches of all time said, ''Developing ball control, before adding power, should be your formost goal when learning the game." I think this applies to the serve as well as all other tennis shots. When you can put your serve where you want it consistantly then it is time to work on power.My humble opinion anyway.

slowfox 01-03-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the hack (Post 7096167)
Welby van Horn, one of the best coaches of all time said, ''Developing ball control, before adding power, should be your formost goal when learning the game." I think this applies to the serve as well as all other tennis shots. When you can put your serve where you want it consistantly then it is time to work on power.My humble opinion anyway.

I've been thinking the same thing. Take a little pace and power off (all strokes), and just work on placement. The power can come later. I don't want to be those guys that swing hard on everything but hardly ever get the ball into the court.

ShoeShiner 01-03-2013 09:14 PM

You should define more specific, gauge measuring power only.
If not, we should also include accuracy, reliability, consistency, to consider.
I think many of us can serve more than 100mph. But how is its placement, how many shots we can do with high percentages.

VeeSe 01-04-2013 04:47 PM

I think that pretty much anybody (men and women) can serve 80mph+ with perfect technique, and the vast majority of men can probably achieve 100mph+ with perfect technique, barring major surgeries that yield physical limitations. Technique is almost everything on serve.

LeeD 01-07-2013 04:49 PM

Throwing a baseball 50 yards will get you a 30 mph first serve, or maybe 35 mph.
For a 95 mph serve, try 200 feet, throwing a baseball.
A football, maybe 45 yards.
When I was in junior high, 7th grade, at less than 65 lbs and second shortest in a class of 300, I threw a softball 180 feet for that presidencial fitness test thing they did in 1961.

user92626 01-07-2013 05:23 PM

Does anyone here favor the measuring method of serve whereby a good serve hits the back fence (21 foot from baseline) without any bounce? That always seems like a good indicator for me whether the ball hits high on the fence or not.

If you could serve like that with dead balls from a hopper, how much better, mph, would it be with new balls? Guesstimate?

LeeD 01-07-2013 05:44 PM

Dead balls, maybe 90, live new balls, warm weather, high altitudes, maybe 110.
Height of bounce only matters from height of strikepoint. Taller players can bounce it higher.
A flat first serve can be hit by guys under 5'10" quite consistently if they can control their bodies during the serve, as a 5'8" Laver can attest.

psv255 01-07-2013 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user92626 (Post 7104495)
If you could serve like that with dead balls from a hopper, how much better, mph, would it be with new balls? Guesstimate?

From personal experience, I'd think it makes a max. difference of 10-12 mph.

OP: While a farther throw usually does correlate to higher serve speeds, the two motions are different enough to perform very differently on each.

To gauge serve potential, I'd start trying to get as close to a purely flat serve as possible, and taking off 10-15 mph for a slice serve and 30 mph for a generic 50/50 pace/spin kicker.

LeeD 01-07-2013 05:55 PM

That bounce height...
Totally depends on temps and strikepoint height.
If you bounce a ball chest high in Florida in 90 degrees, it won't reach hip heights in California where I live, in 52 degree airs and fog rolling in.
And if you can bounce that first flat serve waist high in 52 degree airs with cold balls, you will easily get that serve to bounce upper chest high if you raised your strikepoint and hit the same in 90 degree weather.
Dunlops bounce lowest, Penns second, Wilsons are astronauts.

sureshs 01-07-2013 05:56 PM

The LeeD is back!

LeeD 01-07-2013 06:05 PM

Eh, just heading for the airport tomorrow morning, for a layover of 7 hours in Atlanta airport, then home.
Funny thing about that baseball throw. Almost anyone can throw over 100', including girls who don't throw anything except fits and tantrums.
Most guys throw well over 175', even if they don't play ball for high school.
But very few can get airtime up to around 330', including pro players and of course, LeeD. I never came close.
RobertoClemente is known for having the longest in the air throws in baseball, from around 370 to pitcher's mound in the air. But that is NOT his farthest throws, because his farthest throws would be much higher up in angle, and no coach would allow the ball to spend that much down time floating thru airspace, when a lower throw goes faster and can be to a cutoff man, who can add even more speed to the overall travel.
Outfielder's are taught to throw only about 25 degree upwards for distance, while long distance thrower often heave it up around 45 degrees for greater hangtime, but much slower travel speeds.

sureshs 01-07-2013 06:10 PM

Look for general athletic build - not fat kids. And for coordinated body movement. The way a guy looks and walks is a good indication of his athletic caliber.

user92626 01-07-2013 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeD (Post 7104523)
Dead balls, maybe 90, live new balls, warm weather, high altitudes, maybe 110.
Height of bounce only matters from height of strikepoint. Taller players can bounce it higher.
A flat first serve can be hit by guys under 5'10" quite consistently if they can control their bodies during the serve, as a 5'8" Laver can attest.

Hey, thanks, LeeD

I didn't know that. That's interesting and makes sense. If you're 5,7 or 5,8 I can't imagine how you can strike the ball to bounce up and hit the fence before it drops.

Today I took out a hopper and tried to discover the serve stroke. I'm starting to see where I can get more power in this stroke. Flat serve, no matter how hard I struck it, wouldn't bounce up and perceivably out of opponent's hitting zone though. But hopefully it got enough pace to zip them by. Interestingly, one time in the midst of trying for more topspin, I hit a really crazy topspin that bounced clearly above the opponent's head if he was standing on the baseline, but sadly I wasn't conscious of the grip and the swingpath I was using. I couldn't replicate it afterward :(

Who's got better serve, Djokovic or Federer?

arche3 01-07-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by user92626 (Post 7104789)
Hey, thanks, LeeD

I didn't know that. That's interesting and makes sense. If you're 5,7 or 5,8 I can't imagine how you can strike the ball to bounce up and hit the fence before it drops.

Today I took out a hopper and tried to discover the serve stroke. I'm starting to see where I can get more power in this stroke. Flat serve, no matter how hard I struck it, wouldn't bounce up and perceivably out of opponent's hitting zone though. But hopefully it got enough pace to zip them by. Interestingly, one time in the midst of trying for more topspin, I hit a really crazy topspin that bounced clearly above the opponent's head if he was standing on the baseline, but sadly I wasn't conscious of the grip and the swingpath I was using. I couldn't replicate it afterward :(

Who's got better serve, Djokovic or Federer?

I'm 5'8" and a half. I can hit a serve into back fence 2 ft high pretty easily. And at times even up to 3 ft up. Down the middle T of course.

UCSF2012 01-07-2013 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7095889)
age, gender, body type, flexibility, too many variables...

.

If you have a pe-nis, then you should be able to serve 120+mph


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2006 - Tennis Warehouse