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-   -   my 10 yr old son hates string movement (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=450447)

DustinW 01-10-2013 09:31 AM

my 10 yr old son hates string movement
 
Do I dare put a poly in his racket?

He plays with a Prince EXO3 Tour Team strung with Solinco Vanquish multi. He hits with only an average amount of topspin, but its still enough to cause quite a bit of string movement.

I'm sure people will say don't do it because it will hurt his arm, but I've never been convinced that either rackets or strings hurt peoples arms or shoulders. IMO, elbow and shoulder pain can almost always be connected to bad form.

I'm sure there are other juniors out there playing with poly, so I'm just hoping to here from others that can share their experience.

Anton 01-10-2013 09:36 AM

You can have all three - comfort, spin, and no movement.

Put multi on the main and soft poly on cross ( I use NXT2 main with Hyperion cross).

The poly cross will let the main slide back into place, so no string fixing.

It lasts ok too.

Doubles 01-10-2013 09:38 AM

I would stay away from it for a while longer. His body is still developing and will likely not be able to handle the stiffness of poly even an EXO racket. When he starts breaking multis in less than 2 or 3 hours, then you can consider a hybrid.

Doubles 01-10-2013 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7109757)
You can have all three - comfort, spin, and no movement.

Put multi on the main and soft poly on cross ( I use NXT2 main with Hyperion cross).

The poly cross will let the main slide back into place, so no string fixing.

It lasts ok too.

This would be another good option.

mikeler 01-10-2013 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinW (Post 7109752)
Do I dare put a poly in his racket?

He plays with a Prince EXO3 Tour Team strung with Solinco Vanquish multi. He hits with only an average amount of topspin, but its still enough to cause quite a bit of string movement.

I'm sure people will say don't do it because it will hurt his arm, but I've never been convinced that either rackets or strings hurt peoples arms or shoulders. IMO, elbow and shoulder pain can almost always be connected to bad form.

I'm sure there are other juniors out there playing with poly, so I'm just hoping to here from others that can share their experience.


I would not put poly in. You've got two problems with regards to string movement going on here. First and foremost is the Exo3 Team. I've been using the Tour version the last 3 months and the O-ports combined with the open 16x18 pattern cause the strings to move like spaghetti. The other problem you have is the Solinco Vanquish, it moved around a lot on me when I tried it.

You can look through my multis thread and find one where I said it does not move around a lot. Prince Premiere Attack is a cheaper multi that did not move very much and was a lot better than Vanquish:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=352048

While arm pain may be attributed to bad form there are too many cases I hear of somebody switching to a stiff racket or stiff strings and then developing arm problems. As somebody who has had both golfer's elbow for a year and later tennis elbow for a year, I can tell you that equipment is a factor with arm health.

pvaudio 01-10-2013 10:39 AM

He's 10. Now is the time to convince him that string movement does NOT matter. If he's playing fine and not breaking strings, he doesn't need poly.

maxpotapov 01-10-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 7109820)
Prince Premiere Attack is a cheaper multi that did not move very much

... and not for a good reason. Strings just stick in place which makes the stringbed rather dull on impact and even somewhat harsh on arm.
Natural gut / sleek synthetics hybrid would be a better choice.

TennisCJC 01-10-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton (Post 7109757)
You can have all three - comfort, spin, and no movement.

Put multi on the main and soft poly on cross ( I use NXT2 main with Hyperion cross).

The poly cross will let the main slide back into place, so no string fixing.

It lasts ok too.

This ^^^ is a good suggestion but I am still not convinced a 10 YO needs poly.

I disagree with the initial statement that all elbow issues can be linked to bad form. Playing too much and playing with tight poly strings can both cause elbow issue. There are a lot of good 4.5+ adult players on these boards that play at a fairly high level and they have pain issues related to poly strings. Andre Agassi's wrist injury occurred after he switched to poly strings. He stayed with the strings and he strung them tight but he paid a price.

If you use any poly for a 10 YO, definately use a multi in the mains and the poly in the cross. Also, drop the tension. If your son is playing with a multi at 58 lbs now, then string the multi in the mains at 52 and the poly cross at 48 lbs. A multi/poly hybrid at 52/48 will play as stiff as all multi at 58. Basically, drop the current all multi tension 4-6 lbs and then string the poly cross 4 lbs below the new multi tension. I have played hybrid in the mid 40s and they still have plenty of control.

Personally, I would try to hold off on any poly until the kid is 13-14 years old. You need reasonably fast swing speed to get the full benefit of poly and most 10 YOs are not going to have it. I wold try the prince premier attack or gamma TNT2 as these are synthetics that move less than others first.

mikeler 01-10-2013 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxpotapov (Post 7109908)
... and not for a good reason. Strings just stick in place which makes the stringbed rather dull on impact and even somewhat harsh on arm.
Natural gut / sleek synthetics hybrid would be a better choice.

It does get a little bit stiffer as the string ages but the durability is very good for a multifilament. I did not get any harsh sensation from the string though.

WileyCoyote 01-10-2013 11:48 AM

Stringbed
 
I have recently been playing with full beds of VS or Wilson 16 ga gut. I also play with hybrids of the same strings with very slippery polys or co polys like Lux 4G, MSV Co Focus 1.18 and similar. I am not a string breaker.

Main tensions in the low 50's, poly crosses in the high 40's or low 50's. These tensions result in a very very soft feeling stringbed.

For me, the hybrid stringbeds are easier on my arm than the full bed gut. I think this may be due to the fact that the strings move easier against one another and then snap back needing little or no straightening. The gut also does not fray nearly as bad as it does in a full bed.

The gut/poly hybrid will likely fix his straightening problem, so:

You might have something like this strung up and see what he thinks about the feel. If he is a string breaker, then you can decide whether or not you can afford the gut or maybe use a premium multi in the mains.

My only problem is the polys playability changes and has to be restrung sooner than the gut which I do on my own machine, keeping the gut intact. Yes, it seems to work very well.

Hope this helps,

Harry

Larrysümmers 01-10-2013 11:53 AM

nope. he can get a string a ling or whatever that thing is.

maxpotapov 01-10-2013 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 7109976)
It does get a little bit stiffer as the string ages but the durability is very good for a multifilament. I did not get any harsh sensation from the string though.

Yeah, but my point was when strings do not move at all (locked in place) the stringbed is a bit boardy/unresponsive.

To the OP, every time people talk about string movement they confuse lack of snap back with not moving at all.
No snap back = bad
No movement = bad
Movement + snap back = good

mikeler 01-10-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxpotapov (Post 7110042)
Yeah, but my point was when strings do not move at all (locked in place) the stringbed is a bit boardy/unresponsive.

To the OP, every time people talk about string movement they confuse lack of snap back with not moving at all.
No snap back = bad
No movement = bad
Movement + snap back = good


We shall agree to disagree. :)

I find with multifilament strings that the ones which stay locked into place seem to produce better spin.

db10s 01-10-2013 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WileyCoyote (Post 7110015)
I have recently been playing with full beds of VS or Wilson 16 ga gut. I also play with hybrids of the same strings with very slippery polys or co polys like Lux 4G, MSV Co Focus 1.18 and similar. I am not a string breaker.

Main tensions in the low 50's, poly crosses in the high 40's or low 50's. These tensions result in a very very soft feeling stringbed.

For me, the hybrid stringbeds are easier on my arm than the full bed gut. I think this may be due to the fact that the strings move easier against one another and then snap back needing little or no straightening. The gut also does not fray nearly as bad as it does in a full bed.

The gut/poly hybrid will likely fix his straightening problem, so:

You might have something like this strung up and see what he thinks about the feel. If he is a string breaker, then you can decide whether or not you can afford the gut or maybe use a premium multi in the mains.

My only problem is the polys playability changes and has to be restrung sooner than the gut which I do on my own machine, keeping the gut intact. Yes, it seems to work very well.

Hope this helps,

Harry

So you unstrung the poly but not the gut? And then you put new poly in?

TCF 01-10-2013 12:31 PM

==========================

WARPWOODIE 01-10-2013 12:33 PM

Try using string savers, maybe a 4 square inch of them in the center of the stringbed. Not only will it minimize sting movement, it will minimize breakages, and will also look "cool" for a 10 year old. I use the yellow soft version by Tournacross. It has a deeper cut that it covers 17 and 18 gauge strings...see graphic--->> (\0/), which will also act as teeth to grip the balls, adding more topspin.

maxpotapov 01-10-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeler (Post 7110080)
We shall agree to disagree. :)

I find with multifilament strings that the ones which stay locked into place seem to produce better spin.

For multifilament strings, I agree. Because if they are not locked into place they move and (usually) do not snap back. But who plays with full bed multis anyway? :wink:

corners 01-10-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxpotapov (Post 7110042)
Yeah, but my point was when strings do not move at all (locked in place) the stringbed is a bit boardy/unresponsive.

To the OP, every time people talk about string movement they confuse lack of snap back with not moving at all.
No snap back = bad
No movement = bad
Movement + snap back = good

Yeah. And there is some evidence that strings that move and then snap back increase dwell time and thereby reduce shock, as WileyCoyote seems to be experiencing. I think this is why copoly strings start hurting people's arms too - the strings get notched and scuffed, increasing interstring friction, and at the same time lose enough tension so that the strings aren't stiff enough to snap back into place quickly. People who hit flat hate copoly strings, saying they break their arms, while topspin hitters often string full beds of copoly at pretty high tensions and don't complain. (This could also be a function of age.)

But I agree with the others, I don't think a ten year old should play with poly, even soft poly. Flexible strings that are slippery:

Prince Recoil
Ashaway 100% Zyex Monofilament (MonogutZX)
Any others?

MonogutZX is less stiff than pretty much any string aside from natural gut. I haven't tried it but it's slippery and smooth and might be the ticket for your ten year old. Ashaway's other Zyex strings, the Dynamite family, all have braided nylon outer wraps and get stuck out of place terribly. The ZX is the one to try.

Prince Recoil is just syngut with a teflon wrap. Plays like a syngut and doesn't get stuck out of place. It's been discontinued but you can find it still on the auction site.

Fearsome Forehand 01-10-2013 12:52 PM

Hybrid of some sort. Maybe a thin gauge poly main crossed with soft syn gut like OG Sheep Micro. Don't go super tight on tension since you are concerned about his arm.

How much does he play? If he puts in a lot of hours, it might not be a great idea to go to poly yet. I guess you could try it once as an experiment as see if he has any adverse effects.

Say Chi Sin Lo 01-10-2013 01:22 PM

Tell him to stop b****ing and string movement is going to happen. Maybe less with polys but they still move. It's barely a minor inconvenience.

That's like complaining about wanting to wear shoes, but hate tying/re-tying shoe laces.


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