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-   -   Federer Chop backhand slice---It doesn't work (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=450568)

Nostradamus 01-11-2013 06:29 AM

Federer Chop backhand slice---It doesn't work
 
I am trying this Chop slice Federer uses and it doesn't work for me. I can't get it consistant. I miss 5 out of 10 shots and it always goes into net. At my level, I should be making at least 8 out of 10 shots or 9 out of 10 shots. When I hit the more traditional Ken Rosewall backhand, I am much more consistant. Why is this ? Guys like Will Hamilton might have the answer.

http://www.todaystennistip.com/2012/...-federer-clip/

WildVolley 01-11-2013 06:53 AM

There could be a number of reasons. The Fed chop shot is probably best when used against a ball that is hit with enough pace. Fed isn't generating much of his own pace, just slowing the ball and slicing it crosscourt and low.

You probably don't have Fed's eye-hand coordination, so your racket face is not at the right angle and you're not getting the racket speed through contact.

Lastly, you probably just over-estimate your own playing ability and need for practice. Change the racket face angle if you're hitting them into the net.

5263 01-11-2013 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7112249)
I am trying this Chop slice Federer uses and it doesn't work for me. I can't get it consistant. I miss 5 out of 10 shots and it always goes into net. At my level, I should be making at least 8 out of 10 shots or 9 out of 10 shots. When I hit the more traditional Ken Rosewall backhand, I am much more consistant. Why is this ? Guys like Will Hamilton might have the answer.

http://www.todaystennistip.com/2012/...-federer-clip/

his extreme downward aspect is probably a bit much for most players to handle
and even leads him to a few UEs in bad situations too.
Take his across the ball aspect and use that with a less aggressive downward
drive and see if that doesn't fix things..:)

slowfox 01-11-2013 07:11 AM

Why not just stick with the Rosewall drive slice?

boramiNYC 01-11-2013 07:35 AM

not that Feds slice doesn't work, you can't execute his slice. try not to confuse.

dominikk1985 01-11-2013 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5263 (Post 7112331)
his extreme downward aspect is probably a bit much for most players to handle
and even leads him to a few UEs in bad situations too.
Take his across the ball aspect and use that with a less aggressive downward
drive and see if that doesn't fix things..:)

does across the ball also apply for the slice?

5263 01-11-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dominikk1985 (Post 7112465)
does across the ball also apply for the slice?

It sure does. You drag the racket to the ball from above to some varying extent
as we are discussing here, then change to bring it more across where the racket
face will follow the hand and come out tot he contact.

Pulling to the ball feels like a pretty straight path, but is really more of a
shallow arc, which then gets more sharp as you work the hand across.

luvforty 01-11-2013 08:24 AM

OP you are not doing it right.

The Fed slice is a superior technique comparing to the Kenny slice, in the context of the modern rackets.

advantages -

1) easier face control - the chop generates centrifugal force that pulls the racket taut, so you can be extremely precise... the Kenny slice is a flip and requires more forearm strength.

2) easier timing - the high to low motion goes with gravity, the around-the-body swing path also makes the arm more connected to the body... the Kenny flat-push slice - arm extends out, can have timing problems.

3) better reach - you can throw the chop very wide or very low without losing balance, you also generate side spin to make the ball curve.... you can't do that with the Kenny slice.

4) as others said, better in handling incoming topspin.

The execution of the shot is actually quite simple.. I call it 'aim-and-cut'.

step 1 - at the top of the back swing, aim the face at exactly the intended trajectory

step 2 - cut down and push forward at the same time... you do shift weight to the front foot.

key point (many people do this wrong)... the back of the wrist is 'cupped' at the top of the back swing, but it flattens out and become slightly 'bowed' at the end of the follow thru.... this is the only way to ensure that the face looks at the exact same direction from the start to the finish.

you have this imaginary windshield... it is behind you at the top of the back swing... it is slightly open, and the racket face is on the windshield.... now you wipe it while pushing the windshield forward at the same time... when you finish the shot, the racket face is still flat on the windshield.

you can't miss with this technique.

5263 01-11-2013 08:25 AM

Here is the Nadal slice, which tends to be quite good in matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...8hmKdYbY#t=55s

Even though the arc gets sharper close to contact, the arc with him is clear
from the start.
I think the pros can use more arc throughout due to the incoming pace.
In rec play & jrs, it often helps to pull a bit straighter to the ball as you align the
contact...imo due to lack of incoming pace.

Nostradamus 01-11-2013 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildVolley (Post 7112310)
There could be a number of reasons. The Fed chop shot is probably best when used against a ball that is hit with enough pace. Fed isn't generating much of his own pace, just slowing the ball and slicing it crosscourt and low.

You probably don't have Fed's eye-hand coordination, so your racket face is not at the right angle and you're not getting the racket speed through contact.

Lastly, you probably just over-estimate your own playing ability and need for practice. Change the racket face angle if you're hitting them into the net.

You maybe a genius, you know that. I did notice that Federer Chop is easier to execute when opponent hits a 80 MPH big groundie than with slow floating no pace ball. I don't know why this is ?

Here are fundamentals of slice backhand

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/vide...-fundamentals/

sureshs 01-11-2013 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus (Post 7112592)
You maybe a genius, you know that. I did notice that Federer Chop is easier to execute when opponent hits a 80 MPH big groundie than with slow floating no pace ball. I don't know why this is ?

Here are fundamentals of slice backhand

http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/vide...-fundamentals/

Why don't you attack a slow floating no pace ball instead of slicing it short like a chop?

luvforty 01-11-2013 10:34 AM

make sure you push forward when you slice a ball that has no pace.

TheCheese 01-11-2013 03:43 PM

It just takes good timing since you've got a much smaller window where the racket is in the path the ball is taking.

LeeD 01-11-2013 03:45 PM

Practice against a wall, add pace or spin as needed.
Just because you couldn't hit it on your first day doesn't mean it don't work.
And who says you're doing it close to correctly?

Tennisguy3000 01-11-2013 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7112851)
make sure you push forward when you slice a ball that has no pace.

/\ This :)

rkelley 01-11-2013 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7112851)
make sure you push forward when you slice a ball that has no pace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tennisguy3000 (Post 7113591)
/\ This :)

Also agreed. If the ball's coming at you hard you just have to rip across it. If it has no pace then you have to have more forward motion in your swing.

The modern slice (it's not just Fed) is a great shot in general. You can get wicked spin on the ball that can be hard for your opponent to handle, even the though the ball is not going any where near as fast as with a topspin ground stroke. The net clearance is much less than with a ts groundie so that can increase ufes, but swing path is generally simpler so that helps mitigate some of the risk.

I find the lower balls easier to handle. You can sweep across the ball and put a lot of side spin on it. If you're more aggressive with the racquet the shot can be more effective, but you can hit a pretty safe shot with good back and side spin on the lower balls.

I've found that you have to be aggressive with it when it's high. Otherwise you're just blocking it back one handed without a lot of spin. Those balls get pounded, often for winners, so I try not to do that.

red rook 01-12-2013 04:58 PM

Thought of this video when I saw the title...good stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRaCL8fZbIU

Cheetah 01-12-2013 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvforty (Post 7112521)
step 1 - at the top of the back swing, aim the face at exactly the intended trajectory

step 2 - cut down and push forward at the same time... you do shift weight to the front foot.

key point (many people do this wrong)... the back of the wrist is 'cupped' at the top of the back swing, but it flattens out and become slightly 'bowed' at the end of the follow thru.... this is the only way to ensure that the face looks at the exact same direction from the start to the finish.

you have this imaginary windshield... it is behind you at the top of the back swing... it is slightly open, and the racket face is on the windshield.... now you wipe it while pushing the windshield forward at the same time... when you finish the shot, the racket face is still flat on the windshield.

you can't miss with this technique.

I'd say there are more check points to it than this.

What do you mean by 'cupped wrist'?

luvforty 01-12-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetah (Post 7115703)

What do you mean by 'cupped wrist'?

wrist is laid back... so the back of it looks cupped.

Cheetah 01-12-2013 07:20 PM

ok.

Anyway here are the check points for the fed slice:

. start w/ racquet up high and behind head
. every thing is relaxed and loose at this point. no tension in arm and wrist
. bring the racquet down and across the body. the swing actually goes across the body. don't chop down on a straight line towards the net. this will cause you to open the face resulting in a floater. the racquet path goes across.
. weight transfer and hit off the front foot.
. make contact only very slightly in front of your front foot. almost on the side of your body. Not far out in front as in a 1hbh.
. firm wrist at contact. don't break the wrist with any radial deviation or extension. The wrist and racquet stay in the same relationship as it was when it was above your head at the beginning of the swing.
. throw your off hand back otherwise you will open up before contact and that will result in a floater. Don't swing by rotating your trunk. keep that relatively still. use the off hand to prevent that.
. you should finish w/ racquet and off hand both behind your body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II7Wo0y6fC8


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